Hi 767jetz,
> I see you just registered in the wee hours of the morning to post that crap.
I see I got your attention. You really shouldn't start out with a crude insult; it weakens your argument. You do pick up a bit though, so …
> For your very first post on this forum, you sure did come out swinging.
> Hmmmm… Wouldn’t happen to be CH.12 posting under a different identity,
> would you???
Nope.
> To say pilots are not concerned with lives is absolute ignorance.
I didn’t say pilots aren’t concerned with lives. Pilots are very concerned with lives. As a group, the lives they are most concerned with are locked in a small room up front.
> While I do agree that there are many other people involved in the complex process
> of moving a huge piece of aluminum filled with fuel, people, and cargo from point
> A to point B, and that they all play a role in the safety of the passengers
> to one degree or another, it is the pilots who are the final decision makers and
> shoulder the most responsibility.
The pilot is always, well, most of the time, motivated to do a good job, regardless of experience or pay scale. It is called self preservation. On the other hand, do you want someone fueling your plane who doesn’t care what they are loading in the tanks? How about a load planner who is just too tired from having to work two jobs to run the actual numbers and just goes by the standard figures? Maybe you wouldn’t mind a backyard motorcycle mechanic rigging your fuel or flight control systems.
> This is not just in practice but by law.
> If the CG is off, or the fuel load inaccurate, or the routing is not safe, etc.
> etc., and the pilot does not catch the error, it is he who is responsible. Hence
> the saying, “if anyone screws up, it’s the captains fault.†Pilots oversee the
> entire operation and must have knowledge and understanding of each and every step
> in the process. Not so for other people. Simple fact: Pilots have training,
> experience, and understanding of everyone else’s job.
Interesting. Does that mean the pilot was responsible for the crash of United flight 232? Or the Delta MD-88 fan hub that came apart and killed two people? And I thought those were fatigue failures that were missed during engine overhaul! Can you tell me how the pilot could have caught those? Yet he is responsible? Do you know, for an absolute fact, that every control cable on your plane has proper safeties? That you have Jet A and not glycol in your tanks? If you don’t have personal knowledge of these, and it is in fact your responsibility, are you in violation for accepting the plane?
The crew of the Delta 727 takeoff crash at DFW, on August 31, 1988, was caused by pilots who was more concerned with talking to the female flight attendants during a critical safety period (during taxi-out, which by law is a sterile cockpit period), than with performing their proper safety duties. This does, by the way, show up the other thing pilots are concerned with.
> (metrology, flight planning,
> weight & balance, ATC, maintenance, engineering, evacuation, fire fighting, security,
> and on and on…) Other’s are specifically trained for their field.
In that case, these should be easy for you:
- How many bolts hold the engine on the pylon of a 767? Where are they?
- You check your logbook and see that the left main strut was repacked the night before and that the mechanic used a seal, part number 7437MT987. Did he use the right one?
- What is the difference between Jet A and Jet A-1? What would be a natural condition that would make one unusable but not the other?
- What conditions are necessary for the formation of cirrus clouds?
- Which is more important during taxi out; the pre-takeoff check list, or making a date with the new F/A?
- How many actual life and death decisions does an average airline pilot make over a carrier? How about a New York City bus driver?
> You are certainly entitled to have your opinion. Like a certain part of the anatomy,
> every one’s got one.
Thank you.
> But before you spout off as some expert,
Did I say I was an expert on something? I don’t think so. I do have a smattering of experience in a few areas of aviation, but I am not an expert.
> perhaps you should
> read the whole thread and understand the gist of people’s points.
I did. I thought many of the original points were covered very well, and from several points of view. The arrogance expressed by some, (not all!) pilots though, is a bit much
> I was trying to
> open the eyes of a person who claims that all pilots do is perform a “technical
> function.â€
OH! Like when you tell your kid, “I’ve told you a million times …†when you actually mean, “I told you about that once before.†Or when you tell the FAA inspector, “Honis, I only had one tini gwass of wine, and tat was wiff dinner 10 hour ago.†No, that never (Virgin Atlantic) happens, does it?
> And by the way, even ferry flights can kill people on the ground! Perhaps you are not
> familiar with the crash of Concorde. As they were headed for a large hotel filled with
> people, in the last seconds of their doomed flight, they veered away to spare whatever
> lives possible. They were credited with saving the lives of everyone in that hotel.
Excuse me? The plane went nose vertical and then rolled to near inverted before it HIT the hotel. I doubt the pilot was even in control of his bowels.
> After the crash of flight 232 in a corn field in Iowa, the first thing the captain
> was concerned with was how many people survived. He was quoted later as saying
> that he knew if he brought the jet down anywhere on a airport he could save as many
> lives as possible.
Yes, he did an exceptional job, didn’t he? Subsequent simulator tests showed that other DC-10 crews were unable to repeat the feat. Fortunately, the crew had the assistance of a passenger who was a United training and check pilot with over 3,000 hours on the DC-10, and a sharp eyed flight attendant who recognized damage to the aircraft's horizontal stabilizer that the check pilot failed to find during a pointed search. And I’m sure self preservation played no part in this. If 232 had otherwise been empty, the pilot would have ridden the plane in for a fiery crash hollering Woo-Hoo!
> Now, please go crawl back under your rock.
Sorry, I don’t own one. However, it appears that you like airliner crash trivia. Do you know about this one?
02/09/1982 Japan Air Lines
DC-8-61 Tokyo, Japan The aircraft flew into shallow water after a struggle with a mentally ill pilot. During the approach, the captain, known to have mental problems, put the inboard engines into reverse in an attempt to destroy the aircraft while the co-pilot and flight engineer battled to restrain him. Twenty-four of 174 aboard were killed.
MB
to Al Haynes and his crew.
No need to point out the obvious. Sometimes a little knowledge is the most dangerous. There are obvioulsy large gaps in your aeronautical knowledge, particularly with respect to flying airplanes.
.
