Exit Financing A La Francaise?

[novaqt]

Ukridge:

At this point, there is no prima facie evidence that the ATSB has turned United down again. However, I do agree with you that Mr. Tilton IS looking for the best deal he can get for exit financing. I am reasonably sure that Kirkland & Ellis and/or any of the other very large law firms working on the bankruptcy are assisting in arranging for or brokering the exit financing.

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

You people are amazing! All this wishfull thinking sounds remarkably the same as in the months leading up to the CH11 filing.

Boeing is not dumb enough to provide exit-financing to a struggling client.

Anybody read the WSJ article today about UA applying for pension relief? Terminating the pension plan is even being considered. Another PBGC client!

Say what you want about Dave Siegel at US, but his company had more than a few suitors for providing exit financing AND his ATSB loan was already approved!

And if you think the Euros will/can just throw money at their flag carriers again then you don't know Mario Monti. Go ask Jack Welch about Mario Monti.

Investors ain't gonna provide cash to satisfy pension obligations. Would you if it were your money? The beginning of the final approach will occur when the Elk Grove boys and their groupie consultants announce the termination of pension plans.

Unless somebody does something bold -- soon!

 

[The Ronin]

Here comes the broken record.....again....
The pensions are toast. Period. The only question is....will the company screw all employee groups evenly and fairly....or will they save the pilots and their retirement funds and just screw the other employee groups more? <_<

 

[USA320Pilot]

ALPA President Duane Woerth told the US Airways MEC in "Open Session" a few weeks ago that the ATSB has increased their demands for United to receive a loan guarantee three times and the company has nobody willing to provide the carrier with exit financing.

In regard to the IRS waiver, the IRS rejected US Airways waiver request and approved Northwest' effort to use Pinnacle Airlines stock for required 2003 contributions. In addition, the company's DIP financing requirements will get tougher and tougher during the seasonally slow fall and winter travel period.

In my opinion, Captain Duane Woerth and United ALPA MEC Chairman Paul Whiteford regularly speak.

Respectfully,

Chip

 

[767jetz]

My, my, my... All this negativity. How come whenever there is a ray of postive development for UA, the predictable usual suspects have to chime in. First there's the USAir "UA-stinks-and-you-guys-are-in-denial-if-you-think-your-fate-will-be-any-different-than-ours" group. Then there's the United employee "The-pilot's-are-out-to-screw-everyone-but-themselves" group.

There is reason to believe that Airbus MAY be a player in UA's exit finance strategy.

And IF certain things fall into place, there is a possibility for UA to obtain exit financing without terminating pensions.

USAir's history does not dictate United Airline's course.

 

[767jetz]

P.S.

In MY opinion, Captain Duane Woerth and United ALPA MEC Chairman Paul Whiteford NEVER speak about confidential information. Especially information that is not for the consumption of our competitors.

Again, just my opinion...

 

[The Ronin]

767Jetz....Just a realist sir. Heck, I'm not even really mad to tell you the truth. You know we are not getting out of this (the lower employees that is) with our pension...the company just can't do it and survive, or attract somebody with enough money to invest so we can survive long enough until the business can sustain itself. UAL and it's pilots have made it plainly and painfully clear where everyone stands here. So be it. I come in and do the best job I can, for myself and for the guys I work with, but I do not dilude myself to the reality of where we stand. As for the 'ol Chip...maybe because he is so screwed he daydreams that everyone else will follow his plight in misery. You picked the wrong horse to ride Chip, just admit it. I can....

 

[Ukridge]

Bankernclt et Ringmaruf

Je suis desole (pas de accent grave avec cet ordinateur) mais je n'ai pas encore trouve (aussi une accent grave!) l'article. Je lis de nombreaux journaux lorsque je suis dan l'avion entre Londres et Francfort/Paris. Il faut que je recherche dans quelle journal j'ai trouve l'article.
Cheers


For those who have mentioned the pension funding I am sorry for those employees who are so affected. I am confused however, why this would prevent EADS from providing finanances to exit (assuming this proposition is even true). The pension matter will be solved in one fashion or another whether it be termination or an adjustment. Whatkind's mention of this perplexed me. Outside lenders know the situation. The "situation" will be rectified. Lending will come from one source or another. Telling United employees that their pension is going to be terminated has a whiff of a cheap shot. Will it happen? Perhaps. I am in no position to say. The thread however, was not the discussion of a pension issue but rather the possibility (a trial ballon of some kind?) of EADS/Star provinding exit financing. I would maintain that all knew when United entered bankruptcy that the pensions would be on the block. To repeatedly weave this into other discussions is merely begging the obvious.

 

[Diesel8]

EADS, parent of Airbus, now that would be interesting. Wonder if Boeing would go along with that, if the State Dept, or whoever, will. This could be an issue of foreign ownership, surely EADS will want something in return, perhaps something they know to have value to Star.

Of course Boeing would gladly go along, if that little tanker snafu will go away

 

[767jetz]

Keep in mind that if EADS provides some exit financing, it does not mean they will have an equity stake in UA. A loan is a loan, and their carrot could be a huge Aibus order, and market share, not neccessarily an ownership stake in UA.

 

[Ukridge]

767jetz
Exactly. It is not a secret that Airbus is competing with vigour against Boeing. Some observers have even remarked (I am sure with a heavy touch of saracasm) that they are not sure Boeing even wishes to be in the aircraft business any longer. This is the premise upon which I structered my original question i.e. it is no secret that Airbus would love to seriously crimp Boeing so why would they not wish to "convert" United and its possible future partners to Airbus products.
The politics would be interesting. The wag and cynic would comment that your current administration has never found a job or profession that they did not love to ship overseas so one would have to see if they would try to defend Boeing.
Side question: How much of Boeing is in the U.S. anyway?
Cheers

 

[Diesel8]

Very true 767,

I would however think, that EADS would want something to guarantee the return of the loan, tangible assets. As far as I know UAL has pretty much signed all of those over to BankOne and the other major creditor.

Yes, EADS could very well be thinking of a big Airbi order, although, at present, I cannot see UAL being in a position to make one. Sure, they could get rid of some of the Boeings, although it would probably be easier getting a cheaper lease, than to break it. I have no doubt, that the leasing companies have no delusions of grandeur when it comes to the current market and as so, would be very inclined to alter the lease deals. Perhaps that is the point.

Of course, the irony cannot be lost, that UAL (Boeing Air Transport) could end up owing its future to EADS and hence Airbus.

We live in interesting times

 

[T-bone]

It's true as Ukridge states that, "prolixity" is not a french word. However it's also true that there is no more boundries. It's a world economy. The only allegiance is to cash. That being said the boyo's with the big cash on the line in power will see to a change in Boeing's business strictures as well. Good luck to all.
The robber barron's are back. A new war has begun.
Fraternally, in solidarity.
T-bone.

 

[Taipan]

This is the version of this RUMOR that I heard coming from a couple of United pilots that heard this at the training facility from an Airbus/company pilot
1.Nothing will happen till retirement is hashed out
2.UAL takes over a big Airbus order from a certain star partner
3.Airbus agrees to train all UAL pilots at there cost
4.Airbus/EAD gives United its exit financing?

 

[N230UA]

This is the version of this RUMOR that I heard coming from a couple of United pilots that heard this at the training facility from an Airbus/company pilot
1.Nothing will happen till retirement is hashed out
2.UAL takes over a big Airbus order from a certain star partner
3.Airbus agrees to train all UAL pilots at there cost
4.Airbus/EAD gives United its exit financing?

One can only assume that this "certain star partner" is co-bankruptcy endurer, Air Canada (Eh Canada).