FAA finds cracks on 3 American Airlines 767s

[bravozulu@afw]

OK- the REAL FACT- the support equipment that Spirit has, is mounted to the deck, to suppress vibrations (more accurate measurements). The Pylon equipment that AA has, is very MOBILE, thus subject to vibrations during measurement. Awhile back, the Bay 5 Mod-line used this mobile equipment on several 763's. The engineering staff wanted to keep the stand mobile so that the pylon could be moved to the cleaning shop and to NDT, without damage!

The Tool & Die shop, from TAESL, did NOT like the idea of a mobile stand, but they do alot of work ON THE WING!!

BZ

 

[AA767JET]

Thanks BZ now i understand , and we were all told it was spirit airlines but its not it's spirit aerospace aviation services !!!

 

[Mr.Robot-tow]

Pylons are off. we are working one at AFW and the other is being hacked up at spirit in witchita. Word from our guys that are up there is the spirit folks are not an impressive lot. I do know we fought to do the repair in house at AFW but the senior engineer wanted it to go to spirit, supposedly only they had the proper tooling. Thats confusing I know given we are working one of the 2 cracked pylons here.

Big mistake by AFW Engineering dept.I would have been the first one over in there office's to ask AFW engineering with all are backround in pylon work,repairs mods from DC-10,727,MD80 pylon work over the years AFW experience easly could have done the pylon off repairs and mods from engineering and save money and gain work force experience.AFW has some of the best in the business in structure repair work.Engineering biggest claim was I bet workload on the current line production and lack of manpower.What do you mean by hacking up the pylon?Are they/Boeing/AA engineering trying to fiqure out why it was cracking or have they fiqured that out and how many hrs,cycles on this tail number or pylon and were was it located.Has Boeing fiqured out a repair or is it a standard 51 chapter repair.There are pics being posted on Airliner.com forum site of Ansett pylon crack rather very shocking in nature the length and how deep it was and were it was located.Thoughts?

 

[bravozulu@afw]

From the docks, A/C 360 & 354 do NOT have winglets. Both have #1 (left/port) pylon removed for repair. These are a few of the oldest in the 763 fleet.

Spiritaero.com is the place in Wichita where AFW sent the pylon , escorted by 4 AMT's on a field trip.

BTW, my Father was the Foreman on the DC10 line, in 1979. He, as the AA Representative, went to the family of the C/C that self-terminated. There is a HISTORY of the arguements of AA towards McD/D & the FAA. It seems that the FAA agent who signed the Type Certificate for the DC-10, was the Director of the FAA at the time of the accident! ( Mr Langehorn Bond ) AA asked for leading edge slat lock-outs of McD/D. They said no. Then AA asked the FAA for an STC for the lock-outs. FAA said no. Later AA asked why. The answer that came back, McD/D- Add lock-outs, Warranty voided. FAA- No warranty- no type certificate. The Judge was SHOCKED to read these documents during the plaintiffs wrongful death trial!! The rest is HISTORY!!

BZ

 

[MCI transplant]

From the docks, A/C 360 & 354 do NOT have winglets. Both have #1 (left/port) pylon removed for repair. These are a few of the oldest in the 763 fleet.

Spiritaero.com is the place in Wichita where AFW sent the pylon , escorted by 4 AMT's on a field trip.

BTW, my Father was the Foreman on the DC10 line, in 1979. He, as the AA Representative, went to the family of the C/C that self-terminated. There is a HISTORY of the arguements of AA towards McD/D & the FAA. It seems that the FAA agent who signed the Type Certificate for the DC-10, was the Director of the FAA at the time of the accident! ( Mr Langehorn Bond ) AA asked for leading edge slat lock-outs of McD/D. They said no. Then AA asked the FAA for an STC for the lock-outs. FAA said no. Later AA asked why. The answer that came back, McD/D- Add lock-outs, Warranty voided. FAA- No warranty- no type certificate. The Judge was SHOCKED to read these documents during the plaintiffs wrongful death trial!! The rest is HISTORY!!

BZ

<_< ------ The difference between the DC-10 and the L-1011, as far as the leading edge slat system is concerned is dramatic. The DC-10 has hydraulic actuators that extend and contract them.--------- The L-1011 has jack screws, with an asymmetry brake system, which will lock the leading edges up if the left, or right sides are out of phase with one another more than a half of one degree.-------- And no! I'm not saying the L-1011 was a better Aircraft! Just pointing out the difference.

 

[Bob Owens]

I'm not. There is way too much pencil whipping of maintenance issues these days--some stations more than others. Boarding an a/c and finding overhead bins and/or First Class seats covered with duct tape and a hand-lettered "do not use" sign, just tells me again that I work for a world-class airline.

The word is our guys found it. Good find on their part! Do you really think the FAA goes over airplanes with a fine tooth comb? They mostly look at paperwork.

As for the cosmetics , well, lets just say that the mechanics prioritize. I know as a passenger you may think that the OH bins are important but to the mechanic the hydraulics, engine oils and the wheels take priority. At one time they would bust but to get it all done but now they have taken on the same attitude as their employer "Give as little as you can get away with".

 

[Bob Owens]

JIMTX, Hold the phone there. I am at AFW and have been since 1994. WE FOUND THE CRACKS !!! I WILL SAY THAT AGAIN FOR ALL TO HEAR , WE THE AMTS ON MY DOCK FOUND THESE CRACKS. The professionals who found these crack and raised the red flag are heros. The aircraft was only hours from departures when thee guys noticed something wrong and STOPPED everything. If anything the TWU should be spinning this as our own INHOUSE maintenance saved the day. I have seen the first pylon inquestion first hand and there is NO doubt we narrowly avoided a tragedy. We did avoid it and again I submit to you all that it was thru professionalism, and diligence that AA AMTS saved the day.

Great Job guys! No doubt that the vast experience our guys have tipped them off that something just wasnt right.

 

[Skymess]

JIMTX, Hold the phone there. I am at AFW and have been since 1994. WE FOUND THE CRACKS !!! I WILL SAY THAT AGAIN FOR ALL TO HEAR , WE THE AMTS ON MY DOCK FOUND THESE CRACKS. The professionals who found these crack and raised the red flag are heros. The aircraft was only hours from departures when thee guys noticed something wrong and STOPPED everything. If anything the TWU should be spinning this as our own INHOUSE maintenance saved the day. I have seen the first pylon inquestion first hand and there is NO doubt we narrowly avoided a tragedy. We did avoid it and again I submit to you all that it was thru professionalism, and diligence that AA AMTS saved the day.

Nice work dvlhog. I had the pleasure of touring AFW on a purser field trip and was impressed with all of the work you guys do there.

Not only should TWU be out there spreading the word about AFW finding the cracks but AA should as well. All of the news stories made AA look bad.

Have you heard if any other airlines have encountered the same problem since our cracks were found?

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------ More: http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2010-06-24-boeing-767-inspections-airline-safety_N.htm

 

[AA767JET]

Lets hope that AFW's experience level stays that way come after September when all the bump and rolls start !!!! Who knows !!!
If that were to happen i could see our performance numbers here at Alliance dropping off big time on turn times ...
I'm sure AA management will screw us up again like they did in 2003 !!!
Here we go again it never stops !!!!

 

[MCI transplant]

Lets hope that AFW's experience level stays that way come after September when all the bump and rolls start !!!! Who knows !!!
If that were to happen i could see our performance numbers here at Alliance dropping off big time on turn times ...
I'm sure AA management will screw us up again like they did in 2003 !!!
Here we go again it never stops !!!!

<_< ------- I have no idea how many, if any, AMT's will be coming your way from MCIE.------ My guess would be not many! ------- But, if you do see a few, believe me, they will be experienced! Some may have even worked the 767 Pylon mods a few years back.

 

[AA767JET]

Thanks MCI for the info. i know you guys are very experience there is no doubt but we have a lot of really sharp young AMT'S out here that love what they do and just want to keep doing what they love to do but they would be the ones flushed out the door unfortunately ...I know its the way the industry goes but it still would be hard too see this happen all over again ....

 

[MCI transplant]

Thanks MCI for the info. i know you guys are very experience there is no doubt but we have a lot of really sharp young AMT'S out here that love what they do and just want to keep doing what they love to do but they would be the ones flushed out the door unfortunately ...I know its the way the industry goes but it still would be hard too see this happen all over again ....

<_< ------ AA767JET, I can understand that, and I know you have some sharp people there,------- But if there is anyone from MCI that may bump into AFW, they'd only have nine years Seniority. ------- Let me say it again, I don't believe there will be many, if any at all!------- Most I've talked to just say they're not going anywhere, and are just going to retire. Although as long as AA continues to play this game of pitting one station against another, your going to see this happen again, and again!

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Here is the latest I have. I went down tonight and checked on n354`s pylon. Work is moving along nicely but only 2 shifts working it and no overtime. Very little word out of our guys up north. I have seen some pics and the n360 pylon has the skin pulled off. There was word of several miss drilled holes and talks of freeze plugs. Per the rumor mill that was a NO GO from boeing and it looks like a new bulkhead and midspar fittings are being assembled. I have not been able to talk to the guys in Witchita so tjis info is the lateset from the floor. Looks like 2 or 3 more weeks on n354.

 

[MCI transplant]

Here is the latest I have. I went down tonight and checked on n354`s pylon. Work is moving along nicely but only 2 shifts working it and no overtime. Very little word out of our guys up north. I have seen some pics and the n360 pylon has the skin pulled off. There was word of several miss drilled holes and talks of freeze plugs. Per the rumor mill that was a NO GO from boeing and it looks like a new bulkhead and midspar fittings are being assembled. I have not been able to talk to the guys in Witchita so tjis info is the lateset from the floor. Looks like 2 or 3 more weeks on n354.

<_< ------- dvhog, Have you heard how the inspections are coming on the rest of the fleet?