Finally

[FredF]

Finally, A democrat that is willing to stand up for what is right and put this country ahead of their own selfish party concerns.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2.../1/234200.shtml

WARNING: Not for the liberal at heart.

 

[KCFlyer]

Finally, A democrat that is willing to stand up for what is right and put this country ahead of their own selfish party concerns.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2.../1/234200.shtml

WARNING: Not for the liberal at heart.

[post="175580"][/post]​

Didn't read the article, but you must be talking about Zell Miller... the same guy the neocons were lambasting when he went to Crawford to deliver a letter to president Bush asking that he denouce the swifties. Bush, if you recall, refused to meet him. My, what a difference a day makes. But when spews hate (and there isn't any better word for it), he's a "sensible democrat". Watching his performance left me feeling kind of sorry for the old man. He seemed boderline insane. Watching him with Chris Matthews later on left me feeling that he just crossed the border.

 

[JI Guy]

KC, you have your Georgia senators mixed up. The one who delivered the letter was former Sen. Max Cleland who lost three limbs in Vietnam. Sen. Zell Miller is the one who gave the speech at the GOP convention. Cleland was defeated in 2002 in a very nasty battle with Saxby Chambliss, the GOP campaign questioning Cleland's commitment to national security (do you believe that?!?!?)

 

[KCFlyer]

KC, you have your Georgia senators mixed up. The one who delivered the letter was former Sen. Max Cleland who lost three limbs in Vietnam. Sen. Zell Miller is the one who gave the speech at the GOP convention. Cleland was defeated in 2002 in a very nasty battle with Saxby Chambliss, the GOP campaign questioning Cleland's commitment to national security (do you believe that?!?!?)

[post="175623"][/post]​

My bad. But I'll leave my post up since it shows that I am human. Who knows, maybe GWB will surf the board and see that a "liberal democrat" is able to say "I made a mistake" and maybe he'll see that it ain't so hard to say that.

 

[FredF]

Cleland was defeated in 2002 in a very nasty battle with Saxby Chambliss, the GOP campaign questioning Cleland's commitment to national security (do you believe that?!?!?)

[post="175623"][/post]​

Are you going to correct yourself too?

Cleland was defeated primarially because he sold himself to the liberal elite of the Democratic party, putting party desires and wishes above that of the country. That is why he was resoundingly defeated.

 

[diogenes]

Well, I guess Republicans are never wrong.

 

[USAir757]

My bad. But I'll leave my post up since it shows that I am human. Who knows, maybe GWB will surf the board and see that a "liberal democrat" is able to say "I made a mistake" and maybe he'll see that it ain't so hard to say that.

Had the president actually made a mistake, perhaps it would have been much easier for him to say it (if it is the Iraq war WMD situation you are referring to). Even you would have done the same thing if you were in his shoes.

 

[KCFlyer]

Are you going to correct yourself too?

Cleland was defeated primarially because he sold himself to the liberal elite of the Democratic party, putting party desires and wishes above that of the country. That is why he was resoundingly defeated.

[post="175651"][/post]​

I am obviously not "up" on Georgia politics, but I am pretty well versed on Kansas politics. Look for some coverage of the Kansas 3rd Congressional district race between incumbent Dennis Moore (the rare democrat in a VERY republican district) and challenger Kris Kobach, far, far right wing neocon conservative. Kobach used the "L" word quite often to describe his "moderate" opponent in the primary. And that was in the nice ads. In the dirtier ads, it was muckracking and inuendo at it's finest. Can't wait to see how "fair" Mr. Kobach plays when dealing with what many call a "conservative" democrat. During the last election, the candidate Kobach beat in the primary (Adam Taff) was that Taff was "too nice" during that election....keeping things focused on the issues, until one week prior to the election when, behind in the polls, he went dirty. Kobach's strategy is to get down and dirty from the start.

 

[KCFlyer]

Had the president actually made a mistake, perhaps it would have been much easier for him to say it (if it is the Iraq war WMD situation you are referring to). Even you would have done the same thing if you were in his shoes.

[post="175664"][/post]​

No, I wouldn't have done the same thing. First off, I would not have looked at invading Iraq. If I got information about WMD's in Iraq, I would have verified, verified, VERIFIED reports that said that. And here's the difference part, I would have given equal weight to the reports that said no as I did to the reports that I wanted to see that said yes. Next place I'd differ is that I would have worked with other world leaders to discuss a way that we could work together towards resolving the issue in Iraq, rather than alienating them with a "F*** you, we'll do it ourselves" attitude. And if war was inevitable, I would have told the US citizens that we were entering into something that was going to be a long haul...not a 30 day blitzkrieg with a deck of "Iraqi playing cards". It's war, not Gin Rummy.

 

[NWA/AMT]

Cleland was defeated primarially because he sold himself to the liberal elite of the Democratic party, putting party desires and wishes above that of the country. That is why he was resoundingly defeated.

[post="175651"][/post]​

Sorry, Fred, but I lived in the state of Georgia for many years and voted in the election you're referring to. Saxby Chambliss, who could not be bothered to serve during the Vietnam war, won the election by smearing Max Cleland's patriotism. The same Max Cleland who left three limbs in Vietnam. Saxby didn't even bother to campaign on the issues, he made Max the issue.

That and the Republican party dumped so much money into their campaign to smear Max that they could have bought half the people he represented a new car.

Zell Miller? The most Republican Democrat there ever served in Georgia, so his sudden 'change of heart' surprises nobody there. Look at his voting record, what little there is of it. He's been a Republican for a long time.

Considering the display he put on at the Convention, and afterward on MSNBC, I'm surprised if the Republicans want to claim him. I especially liked the part where he challenged the host of the show to a duel. You can have him.

 

[FredF]

I Still live in GA and that election had absolutly nothing to do with questionsing max's patriotism nor his service to his country.

Unless consider questioning the fact that a senator puts his party ahead of his country questioning his patriotism.

He has become an attack dog for the leadership of the liberal party. He would rather see that the new TSA was manned by UNION people, who happen to strongly support his party, or not at all.

Sorry, but that is not questioning his patriotism. It questions his motives and methods, b ut certainly not his patriotism.

 

[NWA/AMT]

I Still live in GA ...

[post="175720"][/post]​

As would I if my job hadn't been outsourced overseas thanks to the changes made to FAR145 by George the First that allowed airlines to move jobs overseas.

...and that election had absolutly nothing to do with questionsing max's patriotism nor his service to his country

Fred, this is the first time I have ever seen you actually lie. What does the phrase "Max Cleland is wrong for America" mean then? I heard Saxby say that himself, in person, during the campaign.

Unless consider questioning the fact that a senator puts his party ahead of his country questioning his patriotism.

Why is it that whenever a Democrat does his job he's 'putting his party ahead of his country'? Again the Republican double standard shows clearly.

He has become an attack dog for the leadership of the liberal party.

What, and Bob Dole was just feeling cranky because his Viagra perscription isn't covered by Medicare?

The 'Liberal party", Fred? Is that everyone who doesn't agree with Bush or just part of them? Your urge to pigeonhole and demonize is showing.

He would rather see that the new TSA was manned by UNION people, who happen to strongly support his party, or not at all.

Wrong again, Fred. He just wanted them to have the freedom of choice whether to belong to a union or not, something Bush was willing to scrap the whole deal to prevent. Sounds like George was 'putting his party ahead of his country', doesn't it?

Keep trying to sell the fiction that all unions support the Democrats, Fred. Just try not to do it when talking to people like me who belong to unions that do not endorse or support either candidate, and don't pretend it's unfair if they do when corporations are allowed to spend five times more than the unions are.

 

[FredF]

What does the phrase "Max Cleland is wrong for America" mean then?

[post="175754"][/post]​

That means just what is says, he is the wrong person to be in a leadershipp role for america. His beliefs did not represent what Saxby believed was right for the country. There is no way, unless you are trying to create in issues, that you can say that that is an attack on the service and patriotism of Max. Now way!

Daschel said, in one of his more idioitic Quotes, "That you cannot professionalize unless you unionize"

Max bought into that. They wanted another government union in charge of secuiity for the airlines. Max sold himself to Daschle and Saxby, and the people of Georgia, did not want another governement union running security.

The people of Georia agreeded and Max was voted out of office.

At least get the record straight will you.

By the way, I did not lie.

 

[NWA/AMT]

That means just what is says, he is the wrong person to be in a leadershipp role for america. His beliefs did not represent what Saxby believed was right for the country. There is no way, unless you are trying to create in issues, that you can say that that is an attack on the service and patriotism of Max.

[post="175782"][/post]​

This is what the US Army has to say about Max Cleland:

Silver Star Medal Citation

Captain Cleland distinguished himself by exceptionally valorous action on 4 April 1968 … during an enemy attack near Khe Sanh.

When the battalion command post came under a heavy enemy rocket and mortar attack, Captain Cleland, disregarding his own safety, exposed himself to the rocket barrage as he left his covered position to administer first aid to his wounded comrades. He then assisted in moving the injured personnel to covered positions.

Continuing to expose himself, Captain Cleland organized his men into a work party to repair the battalion communications equipment, which had been damaged by enemy fire.

His gallant action is in keeping with the highest traditions of the military service, and reflects great credit upon himself, his unit and the United States Army.


This is what Saxby Chambliss has to say about Max Cleland. Saxby decided to sit out Vietnam with a bad knee but felt warlike enough to attack Max:

"Cleland, a decorated veteran and triple amputee, was attacked by his Republican opponent, Rep. Saxby Chambliss, "for breaking his oath to protect and defend the Constitution." "

Max's crime?

"Cleland had voted for an amendment to the Chemical Weapons Treaty that eliminated a ban on citizens of terrorist nations being on U.N. inspection teams in Iraq. It was a majority vote, 56 to 44, and among those in support were Sen. Bill Frist, the stately chairman of the Senate Republican campaign committee who handpicked candidate Chambliss."

Washington Post Article 6-20-2002

And Fred, since you say you did not lie when you said that Saxby Chambliss DID NOT question Max Cleland's patriotism:

"Chambliss even ran a TV ad picturing Cleland with Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden."

USA Today Article 11-6-2002

If the Democrats ran an ad featuring Bush and Saddam and Osama, Fred, implying he supported them, wouldn't you think his patriotism was being questioned? There goes your double standard again.

Sounds like the record's pretty straight, Fred. I guess the people of "Georia" got the representation they deserved.

Your hatred of unions is obvious, Fred, so I won't even bother going further than pointing out that having civil service protections, a right almost every federal government employee has, are not the same as "wanting a government union running security for the airlines". (What is a "government union" anyway?) Considering your contempt for unions, Fred, I'm sure you wouldn't even be caught taking Labor Day off this weekend. You don't mind if the rest of us do, do you?

 

[KCFlyer]

That means just what is says, he is the wrong person to be in a leadershipp role for america. His beliefs did not represent what Saxby believed was right for the country. There is no way, unless you are trying to create in issues, that you can say that that is an attack on the service and patriotism of Max. Now way!

Daschel said, in one of his more idioitic Quotes, "That you cannot professionalize unless you unionize"

Max bought into that. They wanted another government union in charge of secuiity for the airlines. Max sold himself to Daschle and Saxby, and the people of Georgia, did not want another governement union running security.

The people of Georia agreeded and Max was voted out of office.

At least get the record straight will you.

By the way, I did not lie.

[post="175782"][/post]​

Ain't the internet wonderful?? Living in the midwest, I don't follow Georgia politics, so I did a google search about this and found this:

But Chambliss was not deterred. On May 16 he issued a press release about Cleland's insufficient contribution to the defense of his country: Cleland had voted for an amendment to the Chemical Weapons Treaty that eliminated a ban on citizens of terrorist nations being on U.N. inspection teams in Iraq. It was a majority vote, 56 to 44, and among those in support were Sen. Bill Frist, the stately chairman of the Senate Republican campaign committee who handpicked candidate Chambliss.

While the 55 other senators seem equally reprehensible and guilty of oath-breaking, Chambliss says through his campaign communications director, Michelle Hitt, that the majority was not "overwhelming," and that, although the aye-sayers merited the lash, Chambliss was letting them walk because "he is concerned only about how Sen. Cleland voted, which was contrary to the way Georgians would have voted."

Now...here's what's wrong with politics today. Chambliss felt that the vote was wrong. It was a vote on a NATIONAL scale. Senators from Georgia, Florida, Kansas, California and 46 other states voted on it. So it really doesn't matter what the people of Georgia wanted...apparently the citizens of Tennessee must have wanted it voted that way...their Republican senator made the same "mistake" that Cleland did. Yet....he get's to "slide", I guess because he was a Republican. So much for "reaching accross the aisle". If you vote like a Republican, and your a democrat, then according to neocon's...the democrat was wrong while the republican was right. Go figure.