Flight Attendants' Voices Heard: Hell No!

[SparrowHawk]

Congratulations on finding one (in your world that must constitute "by and large") of your so-called Libertarians who want to use recreational drugs. You certainly know how to denigrate an entire group of people and, I am not even sure you know it. Why am I not surprised.

Yeah he sure pulled that comment right out of his butt. Look I lived with a heroin addict and I have paid a heavy price for that decision. It was mine to make. Still to this very day I can't help but wonder if her drug of choice had been legal and priced at the same level as a carton or 2 of cigarettes per week if she wouldn't be a productive member of society, working, paying taxes and not scamming, stealing & whoring to support her addiction.

I too, found the comments directed at F/A's to be typical of the condescending arrogance of US Airways Management both pre and post merger. Things I heard with my own ears would mortify that average person. "Sky Waitress" "Part time Job" and far worse crossed their lips.

Moment of Candor? Being a flight attendant isn't Brain Surgery. None the less there is a skill set involved and not everyone can be a good F/A. Equally true is that there is NEVER any disgrace in honest labor. I am personally offended by some of the Anti-Union rhetoric here as I am reminded of the words of a former MEC President regarding unions, "Bob, If a company treats worker fairly, with dignity and respect there would be no need for a union" This person was right then and is right this very day. No amount of venom and vitriol can change that simple basic fact.

 

[flyus2]

I don't like it even a little when so much as ONE person loses a job.



Your comment shows your ignorance of C-Level people. They rose to the top due to blind ambition, greed, ego and the like. These ass clowns would be emotionally devastated as they would likely be unemployable at their current level in the airline industry.



Doug Parker is always saying how consolidation is good for the industry. Maybe it's time for Labor to help him out by reducing capacity in the form of "We get paid market rates or we shut you down" It's not like US Employees get anything close to top wages. When Labor finally had enough of Lorenzo they shut him down AND we haven't had an airline go extinct due to Labor issues since. It's been a good 20 years since that revolution. Perhaps time for another revolution?

My ignorance....how about what do you think a bunch of pilots and flight attendants would do if the doors shut....drive buses and waitress...Doug and pals...probably playing golf all day......face reality!!!

 

[SparrowHawk]

My ignorance....how about what do you think a bunch of pilots and flight attendants would do if the doors shut....drive buses and waitress...Doug and pals...probably playing golf all day......face reality!!!

You might be surprised at what they might do. I know some folks who have left voluntarily or otherwise and have gone on to some pretty nice gigs in the non aviation field. One pilot is flying cargo all over the world for Atlas (i think) and loving it. More than a few F/A's have gone into Sales and are making double what they made at US and home every night. Also you do realize that someone working 3 or 4 nights a week at a good restaurant can easily out perform a reserve F/A at US income wise?

Look I hear what you're saying. Truth is for what you make I wouldn't put on the uniform for a week much less a career. The amount of work versus the reward just isn't there for me. There is a world out there far more lucrative then US Airways.

People like you who are articulate enough to do far more don't and in some ways I wish US would close so you could find out just how much you can make for yourself. It's scary I'll give you that, but it can be very rewarding.

 

[BungeeJumper]

Increase the pay, offer a (realistic) buy-out and shorten the length of the contract to 3 years. A signing bonus would also help.

It should have only been 3 years not 5 with a company with such a poor negotiating track record. I would have also wanted 3% raises at the end until another one was negotiated. The language that left things to schedulings descretion needed to be eliminated. I am still not a fan of PBS and this could also go. Considering what separating from the pilots was going to save them, they didnt give any to me. Regardless of what the union says I would rather be covered by pilot rest regs which are FARS than by something the union negotiates that can be violated at will.
....
The west does have some good things in their contract like STD, better vacation, trip cancellation pay
...
I am not on reserve so I dont know much about the system, but I do know the people on reserve were not impressed with what was offered.

Let's get this back on track, and try to avoid the personal attacks please. So far, we've heard from F/A's that they need:
- More Money (no specific % given, except 3% at the end until next contract negotiated)
- 3 year term
- Define language to eliminate scheduling discretion
- Concerns about PBS
- Want the same rest periods as a Pilot
- Short Term Disability
- West vacation accrual
- Trip Cancellation Pay
- Better Reserve System

What other things are there, or have we hit on them all? Regarding PBS...what is of concern about PBS? West pilots seem to love PBS (there's another thread on that topic). Regarding the Reserve system, what's lacking there? Isn't the new reserve system being on call for 12 hours windows instead of 24?

 

[CallawayGolf]

Congratulations on finding one (in your world that must constitute "by and large") of your so-called Libertarians who want to use recreational drugs. You certainly know how to denigrate an entire group of people and, I am not even sure you know it. Why am I not surprised.

Well since I would hate to denigrate a guy whose screen name implies he bludgeons helpless and innocent baby seals (or a guy whose avatar depicts a terrorist whose group engages in violence against innocent people), so let me revise my statement. I have been familiar with the Libertarian party since the mid '80s and it was very common knowledge that legalizing drugs was a key plank in their platform. That plank and the implications of the same kept me from ever considering an association with that second-tier political party despite some strong similarities on the issues of federalism, taxes and the Constitution.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Well since I would hate to denigrate a guy whose screen name implies he bludgeons helpless and innocent baby seals (or a guy whose avatar depicts a terrorist whose group engages in violence against innocent people), so let me revise my statement. I have been familiar with the Libertarian party since the mid '80s and it was very common knowledge that legalizing drugs was a key plank in their platform. That plank and the implications of the same kept me from ever considering an association with that second-tier political party despite some strong similarities on the issues of federalism, taxes and the Constitution.

If an IRA Freedom Fighter is a terrorist, Then by definition so was George Washington. If you can't see the benefit of treating drug use as a public health issue and not a criminal act then you're ignorant of some very basic facts. Most of which I pointed out.

None of this has squat to do with the F/A contract and the subsequent NO vote. I'm taking the vote to be as much middle finger to Parker as it is rejection of the specific terms of the contract. The management team can not be trusted by either customer or employee. There is ample evidence to support my contention some of it personal in nature.

I am very proud of the F/A's taking a stand in a rough economy. That takes courage and time will be the judge of whether it will be the right path.

 

[CallawayGolf]

If an IRA Freedom Fighter is a terrorist, Then by definition so was George Washington. If you can't see the benefit of treating drug use as a public health issue and not a criminal act then you're ignorant of some very basic facts. Most of which I pointed out.

None of this has squat to do with the F/A contract and the subsequent NO vote. I'm taking the vote to be as much middle finger to Parker as it is rejection of the specific terms of the contract. The management team can not be trusted by either customer or employee. There is ample evidence to support my contention some of it personal in nature.

I am very proud of the F/A's taking a stand in a rough economy. That takes courage and time will be the judge of whether it will be the right path.

At the federal level (which is all I am concerned with) its a 10th amendment states' rights issue nothing more, nothing less. If the states want to take the risk and legalize the free use of narcotics that's within their rights. If states want to attempt their own local enforcements, that's also their rights. That's just the way our Constitution was setup to work. I figured you would know that, but maybe I assumed too much.

 

[ebwgs]

How about taking this discussion to the right wing wacko Water Cooler thread where it belongs and let's steer it back to the original topic of this thread.

 

[CallawayGolf]

How about taking this discussion to the right wing wacko Water Cooler thread where it belongs and let's steer it back to the original topic of this thread.

Sounds good. So, beyond the remote chance of getting released to self-help, what negotiating leverage does the AFA have to get a more favorable contract? Have they been holding something back for the last six years?

 

[ebwgs]

Sounds good. So, beyond the remote chance of getting released to self-help, what negotiating leverage does the AFA have to get a more favorable contract? Have they been holding something back for the last six years?

Good question. As a rank and filer I can't say what, or if there is or isn't a plan B beyond the union's stated plan to poll the membership. If there are serious merger plans there may be leverage there. As far as the union holding something back for the last six years I think you know better than that.

 

[ggiby]

With the difference in "yes" and "no" votes I would not be surprised to see the NMB park the AFA's negotiations like they did for USAPA, APA, and APFA. Then what?

so what if they do???? We can live with the contract we have ..... its been here for many years... this one we just voted down was concessionary... it was so bad... we got a raise... back to my 1990 wages... but lost more back to 1982.... vacation... sick leave... medical... and more... more.... the hourly increase did not cut it... and oh... no more increases for a long time... So it was a joke... I will live with what I have right now...

 

[ebwgs]

so what if they do???? We can live with the contract we have ..... its been here for many years... this one we just voted down was concessionary... it was so bad... we got a raise... back to my 1990 wages... but lost more back to 1982.... vacation... sick leave... medical... and more... more.... the hourly increase did not cut it... and oh... no more increases for a long time... So it was a joke... I will live with what I have right now...

Agreed.

 

[SparrowHawk]

How about taking this discussion to the right wing wacko Water Cooler thread where it belongs and let's steer it back to the original topic of this thread.

Hey I keep trying to steer it back to the topic but to no avail. Bottom line questions for the F/A's:

Do you trust Doug Parker and the US Management Team?

 

[Bertha]

Good luck getting a new TA anytime soon. I hope this isn't a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Really interested in what was so bad about that contract. I read through it and thought it had some really good work rules. Would really be interested to hear some specific items that caused the no vote and what (realistic) changes would have resulted in a yes vote.

 

[dca319]

The problem is that you guys still think you're a regional airline, step children beaten into submission for too many years.

breeze

You do realize that you're an east pilot on a bankruptcy contract that is helping the company consistently hit top ops numbers, don't you?