Flights to Haneda, Japan

[damajagua]

One of the other applicants (I think it was UA) pointed out that UA was the only airline committed to keeping its NRT flights from its HND gateway (SFO); anyone think AA will abandon NRT from LAX or JFK, assuming AA gets one or both of its requested slots?

That is a very good point. I honestly do not think that AA con operate two flights
in both of those markets profitable. I might be mistaken but the JFK-NRT
flight is not a money making flight for AA.

 

[eolesen]

I suspect all carriers will keep both, given the lack of open skies and relative scarcity of frequencies. NRT can likely be supported by connecting traffic to/from JL, and Haneda is going to be mostly Tokyo O&D.

 

[FWAAA]

I suspect all carriers will keep both, given the lack of open skies and relative scarcity of frequencies. NRT can likely be supported by connecting traffic to/from JL, and Haneda is going to be mostly Tokyo O&D.

Good points.

I went back and looked, and it was CO in its answer that claimed that only CO had committed to retain its EWR-NRT flight if awarded a slot for HND. It claims that AA had not committed to keep its JFK-NRT flight if awarded HND. Nothing in the CO's reply about this claim.

In CO's reply, it claims that its hoped-for EWR-HND flight would divert passengers not from its own EWR-NRT flight, but from other airlines' JFK-NRT flghts.

 

[lpbrian]

Good points.

I went back and looked, and it was CO in its answer that claimed that only CO had committed to retain its EWR-NRT flight if awarded a slot for HND. It claims that AA had not committed to keep its JFK-NRT flight if awarded HND. Nothing in the CO's reply about this claim.

In CO's reply, it claims that its hoped-for EWR-HND flight would divert passengers not from its own EWR-NRT flight, but from other airlines' JFK-NRT flghts.

What about GUM? According to CO, GUM is Asia's premiere hub, and CO is always right.

 

[upsilon]

AA: JFK-HND
HA: HNL-HND
DL: DTW-HND, LAX-HND

I was wrong about HNL

 

[FWAAA]

Nearly every prediction in this thread was wrong, including mine. I thought UA's SFO was a shoe-in and I never imagined that DOT would waste one of four (rare) slots on HA's ridiculous HNL proposal. As the other airlines pointed out, HA could serve NRT or could operate charters to HND from a separate pool of slots. Wasting them on Japanese tourists seems pointless, especially since ANA and JAL will probably waste some of their slots on the same route.

Once again, size matters, as DL wins the LAX race by promising to use a 744 instead of AA's puny 777s, just like when UA won the IAD in part on the size of its 744. Wonder if AA can object if DL ever downsizes that route to a 777, which is bound to happen once fuel hits $120/bbl or higher.

At least AA won its first choice - Delta's two routes were not its first choices, SEA was its first choice.

 

[Maark767]

Nearly every prediction in this thread was wrong, including mine. I thought UA's SFO was a shoe-in and I never imagined that DOT would waste one of four (rare) slots on HA's ridiculous HNL proposal. As the other airlines pointed out, HA could serve NRT or could operate charters to HND from a separate pool of slots. Wasting them on Japanese tourists seems pointless, especially since ANA and JAL will probably waste some of their slots on the same route.

Once again, size matters, as DL wins the LAX race by promising to use a 744 instead of AA's puny 777s, just like when UA won the IAD in part on the size of its 744. Wonder if AA can object if DL ever downsizes that route to a 777, which is bound to happen once fuel hits $120/bbl or higher.

At least AA won its first choice - Delta's two routes were not its first choices, SEA was its first choice.

It's a good route for AA.... JFK- HND... I hope we can make it work...

 

[eolesen]

AA: JFK-HND
HA: HNL-HND
DL: DTW-HND, LAX-HND

I was wrong about HNL

Wow.... UA and CO both got shut out, yet DL got two routes. DOT talks in the show-cause order about the AA award addressing the alliance imbalance, but if that's the case, why give DL two of the four awards?.......

It ain't over yet, guys. Obama has a chance to flex his muscle and win favor with Mayor Daley, so maybe one of these will be overturned.... which is exactly what happened on the first ORD-NRT route case. AA won the DOT's show-cause, and the White House gave it to UA.

 

[MERV]

The decision looks to be a big win for Delta, which gets two routes - from Los Angeles and Detroit. Hawaiian Airlines ( HA - news - people ) is something of a surprise because it is so small. It gets a route from Honolulu. American Airlines ( AMR - news - people ) would fly from New York.

DOT: New Tokyo routes to Delta, American, Hawaiian
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2010/05/07/business-materials-us-japan-flights_7587156.html?partner=alerts

Should gave AA two routes because AA lacks presences in asia.

 

[damajagua]

It's a good route for AA.... JFK- HND... I hope we can make it work...

I hope they can. But I seriously doubt that AA will be sustain two flights
to Japan from JFK. I do not think AA network is big enough in JFK
to support one flight to NRT and another to Haneda.
I will not be surprise if in a few months AA stops the JFK-NRT
route.

 

[jersey777]

I hope they can. But I seriously doubt that AA will be sustain two flights
to Japan from JFK. I do not think AA network is big enough in JFK
to support one flight to NRT and another to Haneda.
I will not be surprise if in a few months AA stops the JFK-NRT
route.

Unfortunately I agree. Until AA gets more airplanes there will not be growth. Any new routes we gain will come from another route being eliminated or downsized.

 

[frontline]

Unfortunately I agree. Until AA gets more airplanes there will not be growth. Any new routes we gain will come from another route being eliminated or downsized.

Sad to say it, but I think that is exactly what we need right now. We have to make the best use of the aircraft we have by shifting things around to get higher RASM. If JFK-HND offers a better yield than JFK-NRT, and if there's only enough traffic for one, let's go with the more lucrative one. And that is almost sure to be Haneda because of business travel.

 

[Edward]

Lets stay on topic & no personal comments. One post has been removed.

 

[FWAAA]

Unfortunately I agree. Until AA gets more airplanes there will not be growth. Any new routes we gain will come from another route being eliminated or downsized.

I agree that AA can't have substantial international longhaul growth until new airplanes arrive, but there is some slack in AA's 777 fleet right now - I think MAH4546 has said there are about 5 or 6 "extra" 777s based on this summer's schedule - but that most of them are promised to the federal government this summer for troop movement to/from our middle eastern conflights. Perhaps by October 31 (when the new HND runway opens), the military charters will subside.

Anybody see the slap to APA in AA's press release? Here's AA thanking its unions for help in lobbying for the HND route:

"Our success in winning this designation was greatly enhanced by the strong support from the Transport Workers Union and the Association of Professional Flight Attendants. We recognize and are grateful for the effectiveness of their advocacy," Ris added.

http://aa.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=2920

 

[FWAAA]

DOT rejected the appeals filed by UA and CO and made permanant their tentative awards to HA, DL and AA:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/DOT-awards-soughtafter-air-apf-582239318.html?x=0&.v=2