Foreign Crew Bases

[crj58]

Which foreign F/A and pilot bases still exist with UA crewed with USA nationals?
I know Paris has closed but what about Frankfurt and London?

 

[Hi-C-Camp]

Which foreign F/A and pilot bases still exist with UA crewed with USA nationals?
I know Paris has closed but what about Frankfurt and London?

UAL still has f/a bases in London, Frankfurt, Hong Kong, and Tokyo... UAL flight attendants in these bases are covered by the AFA union.. One of my friends actually just transferred to London from IAD and he likes it so far.. UAL needs to close these bases though, as they have no real use.. They are just there to be there, it would be understandable if we still did Europe to India etc.. but that isn't the case.. Just another example of the wasteful UAL mgmt. style...

 

[trollydolly]

UAL still has f/a bases in London, Frankfurt, Hong Kong, and Tokyo... UAL flight attendants in these bases are covered by the AFA union.. One of my friends actually just transferred to London from IAD and he likes it so far.. UAL needs to close these bases though, as they have no real use.. They are just there to be there, it would be understandable if we still did Europe to India etc.. but that isn't the case.. Just another example of the wasteful UAL mgmt. style...

I totally disagree with you on the account it costs United far less to have the bases in Europe and Asia then it would be if they were to increase their hotel costs by having US based flight attendants layover overseas. That is why LHR has the majority of their base ID's, and FRA has all of the IAD ID'S. FRA lost the SFO ID because it cost UAL too much money to lay them over there. IAD FRA is also one of UAL's big money makers.

As you and I both know, this company is about money. If one of these bases started to become unprofitable, then it would be grounds to close them, but most of them are not. CDG, Santiago, TPE were not, and that is why they were closed. MIA, CLV, and PHL were also not profitable and look what happened to them. Foreign domiciles also have higher customer satisfaction ratings compared to their US colleagues with the exception of Hawaii who ranks up there with the foreign domiciles, but again ratings mean nothing. It is all about money.

Take a look at the Yen, Pound, or Euro. As you know, the $ does not go as far as it used too.

EUR-USD 1.4801
USD-JPY 109.9250
GBP-USD 1.8538

I personally do not wish that any base closes, because it affects many individuals and their families. You should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking of such a thing. Your thoughts are probably based on your own selfishness, which is typical in this industry. You fail to see the bigger picture and that is what keeps flight attendants at odds with one another, because they believe and think that the world is about them and no one else. What you should be concerned with, is if you are going to have a job in the next year.

 

[Hi-C-Camp]

I totally disagree with you on the account it costs United far less to have the bases in Europe and Asia then it would be if they were to increase their hotel costs by having US based flight attendants layover overseas. That is why LHR has the majority of their base ID's, and FRA has all of the IAD ID'S. FRA lost the SFO ID because it cost UAL too much money to lay them over there. IAD FRA is also one of UAL's big money makers.

As you and I both know, this company is about money. If one of these bases started to become unprofitable, then it would be grounds to close them, but most of them are not. CDG, Santiago, TPE were not, and that is why they were closed. MIA, CLV, and PHL were also not profitable and look what happened to them. Foreign domiciles also have higher customer satisfaction ratings compared to their US colleagues with the exception of Hawaii who ranks up there with the foreign domiciles, but again ratings mean nothing. It is all about money.

Take a look at the Yen, Pound, or Euro. As you know, the $ does not go as far as it used too.

EUR-USD 1.4801
USD-JPY 109.9250
GBP-USD 1.8538

I personally do not wish that any base closes, because it affects many individuals and their families. You should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking of such a thing. Your thoughts are probably based on your own selfishness, which is typical in this industry. You fail to see the bigger picture and that is what keeps flight attendants at odds with one another, because they believe and think that the world is about them and no one else. What you should be concerned with, is if you are going to have a job in the next year.

You must be off your rocker to think that this company is all about the low cost of doing things... Now we all know that is not true.. UAL has so much fat it is laughable.. UAL unfortunately didn't do enough during BK, UAL is living in a dream world which is why UAL was rejected by CAL for a merger.. NOW UAL is trying to trim and cut heads.. Do you think that paying someone in EURO is cheaper than laying someone over? Or paying for office space at LHR and MGMT at LHR or FRA for that matter.... Does other airlines have bases in LHR and FRA?? NO!!! This company does not do what is most profitable... Back in the day of Jane Allen, I asked her to her face, why we have TED and it doesn't make sense to have more weight on the a/c with more bodies and cheap fares with the price of fuel.. Jane said to me, that TED was one of the most profitable parts of UAL and " I assure you TED is going nowhere "... I said, that just doesn't make logical sense, but ok.... The next thing you know, Jane is gone and so is TED..


Next, it is not out of selfishness, it is out of common sense, which, most at UAL lack, they spatter untruths and comments that aren't worthy.. I hardly am worried about my job, I could care less if I have my job or not, it's not like any f/a for any airline can't go walk to wal-mart and be a greeter for more money, lets be real, when you divide your hours of work into your salary you are paid nothing... So unlike most people, I have a plan b and c... It sounds like you do not though.. Might be a good thing to get started on.. I wish the best for everyone at all airlines and I dohope UAL survives however the people in LHR FRA HKG AND NRT need to be transferred to a US domicile and they need to be closed..

you see, streamlining ops is what helps to create profitability.. Lets take a look at CAL, they have 3 bases CLE IAH EWR and Guam if you count Air Mic... There is really no need for bases overseas, the only one I could even see halfway justifying would be NRT... Thats it.... How long did it take UAL to realize that CDG was not needed??? YEARS!!!!! they flew to IAD and ORD, well we must need a domicile there then... PLEASE... It took years for the closure to happen, think of all the money wasted, flying out the window and for what?? You need to do a little research, the picture is much bigger than you think...

 

[trollydolly]

You must be off your rocker to think that this company is all about the low cost of doing things... Now we all know that is not true.. UAL has so much fat it is laughable.. UAL unfortunately didn't do enough during BK, UAL is living in a dream world which is why UAL was rejected by CAL for a merger.. NOW UAL is trying to trim and cut heads.. Do you think that paying someone in EURO is cheaper than laying someone over? Or paying for office space at LHR and MGMT at LHR or FRA for that matter.... Does other airlines have bases in LHR and FRA?? NO!!! This company does not do what is most profitable... Back in the day of Jane Allen, I asked her to her face, why we have TED and it doesn't make sense to have more weight on the a/c with more bodies and cheap fares with the price of fuel.. Jane said to me, that TED was one of the most profitable parts of UAL and " I assure you TED is going nowhere "... I said, that just doesn't make logical sense, but ok.... The next thing you know, Jane is gone and so is TED..


Next, it is not out of selfishness, it is out of common sense, which, most at UAL lack, they spatter untruths and comments that aren't worthy.. I hardly am worried about my job, I could care less if I have my job or not, it's not like any f/a for any airline can't go walk to wal-mart and be a greeter for more money, lets be real, when you divide your hours of work into your salary you are paid nothing... So unlike most people, I have a plan b and c... It sounds like you do not though.. Might be a good thing to get started on.. I wish the best for everyone at all airlines and I dohope UAL survives however the people in LHR FRA HKG AND NRT need to be transferred to a US domicile and they need to be closed..

you see, streamlining ops is what helps to create profitability.. Lets take a look at CAL, they have 3 bases CLE IAH EWR and Guam if you count Air Mic... There is really no need for bases overseas, the only one I could even see halfway justifying would be NRT... Thats it.... How long did it take UAL to realize that CDG was not needed??? YEARS!!!!! they flew to IAD and ORD, well we must need a domicile there then... PLEASE... It took years for the closure to happen, think of all the money wasted, flying out the window and for what?? You need to do a little research, the picture is much bigger than you think...

Actually I have a masters degree, own a couple of stores, and my partner and I are getting ready to expand into the wholesale end of things. So before you assume that I do not have a B or C find out your facts first. I am glad you do not need this job and that you are not worried about it. I will sleep better knowing this.

To correct one of your false statements that flight attendants based overseas are paid in Euros. They are not. They are paid in dollars. Call payroll and ask them, they will verify what I have just stated. Some FA have taken advantage of an exchange rate offered by the company, but not all of them do.

There are a few things that I do agree with you, and they are that UAL did not do enough during their BK, and there is really a lot of fat that still needs to be trimmed. Ted, is/was a huge failure, but history shows that airlines within airlines have never worked.

I do know that other airlines have bases in other country's. To my knowledge none of the US airlines, but many of the foreign carriers who were profitable in the past few years do. LH have bases in India, Bangkok, Narita. KLM has a base in India. JAL has a base in Frankfurt. Ryan Air has a base in Spain. Quantas has a base in LHR, just like UAL, and some bases in Asia. BA has a base in CDG. So you see, UAL is not the only one who has taken to this concept, and being that we used to be the biggest airline and are now soon to be number 3 in the world it kind of makes sense that we might have a few more then these other carriers.

Now some of these bases mentioned above are filled with foreign nationals, but they are exactly like the ones we have in Asia that flight attendants are always screaming to close them down.

So please do not tell people to do their research unless you yourself have done yours. Sleep well.

 

[L1011Ret]

Actually I have a masters degree, own a couple of stores, and my partner and I are getting ready to expand into the wholesale end of things. So before you assume that I do not have a B or C find out your facts first. I am glad you do not need this job and that you are not worried about it. I will sleep better knowing this.

To correct one of your false statements that flight attendants based overseas are paid in Euros. They are not. They are paid in dollars. Call payroll and ask them, they will verify what I have just stated. Some FA have taken advantage of an exchange rate offered by the company, but not all of them do.

There are a few things that I do agree with you, and they are that UAL did not do enough during their BK, and there is really a lot of fat that still needs to be trimmed. Ted, is/was a huge failure, but history shows that airlines within airlines have never worked.

I do know that other airlines have bases in other country's. To my knowledge none of the US airlines, but many of the foreign carriers who were profitable in the past few years do. LH have bases in India, Bangkok, Narita. KLM has a base in India. JAL has a base in Frankfurt. Ryan Air has a base in Spain. Quantas has a base in LHR, just like UAL, and some bases in Asia. BA has a base in CDG. So you see, UAL is not the only one who has taken to this concept, and being that we used to be the biggest airline and are now soon to be number 3 in the world it kind of makes sense that we might have a few more then these other carriers.

Now some of these bases mentioned above are filled with foreign nationals, but they are exactly like the ones we have in Asia that flight attendants are always screaming to close them down.

So please do not tell people to do their research unless you yourself have done yours. Sleep well.

TWA had f/A crew bases in CDG, FCO and HKG. HKG was easy to close as TWA stopped service there. But the work rules in Italy and France cost TWA an arm and a leg to close them.

 

[Hi-C-Camp]

To correct one of your false statements that flight attendants based overseas are paid in Euros. They are not. They are paid in dollars. Call payroll and ask them, they will verify what I have just stated. Some FA have taken advantage of an exchange rate offered by the company, but not all of them do.







I am talking about mgmt. in those stations.. I know the f/a's are not paid in euros.. I don't know if this is fact, but I believe that TED was developed to do some union busting during BK... However it did not work .. Anywho, I hope I didn't offend you, but if foreign bases were saving tons of money - all of the airlines would have them.. thats not the case...

 

[flightclub]

Just off the top of my head:

Foreign crew bases in LHR

JAL-Japan Airlines
Cathay Pacific
Air New Zealand
Qantas
United Airlines
Saudi Arabian Airlines

Definitely cheaper to have F/As domiciled in LHR than to pay for Hotel accomodation in mega-expensive London.

Why don´t more US carriers have F/As domiciled in LHR? Because up to recently only United and American Airlines were allowed to fly into LHR. Open Skyes is a very, very recent brilliant (??) concept. What about American Airlines, you ask. Why don´t they have a base in LHR? Because of the Union, Collective Bargaining Agreements , etc...if they could, they would have F/As domiciled in LHR.
United was just very luck when it acquired "Pan Am´s London Authority", as it was known then.
Historically the British Pound has always been stronger than the US Dollar.
It´s all about keeping the costs down.

 

[Hi-C-Camp]

Just off the top of my head:

Foreign crew bases in LHR

JAL-Japan Airlines
Cathay Pacific
Air New Zealand
Qantas
United Airlines
Saudi Arabian Airlines

Definitely cheaper to have F/As domiciled in LHR than to pay for Hotel accomodation in mega-expensive London.

Why don´t more US carriers have F/As domiciled in LHR? Because up to recently only United and American Airlines were allowed to fly into LHR. What about American Airlines, you ask. Why don´t they have a base in LHR? Because of the Union, Collective Bargaining Agreements , etc...if they could, they would have F/As domiciled in LHR.
United was just very luck when it acquired Pan-Am´s London Authority, as it was known then.
Historically the British Pound has always been stronger than the US Dollar.
It´s all about keeping the costs down.

Oh please, this is 6 airlines in the WORLD.... This is like comparing Emirates to AMR.. WE all know which is better.... UAL has never been good at keeping costs down, if that was the case then they would make f/a's go through the window exit in RET... Now that would keep costs down... HALF GONE INSTANTLY.... Which should be the case anyway... Half of these lazy broads can't make it down the aisle.... US and Foreign domiciles...

 

[flightclub]

Oh please, this is 6 airlines in the WORLD.... This is like comparing Emirates to AMR.. WE all know which is better.... UAL has never been good at keeping costs down, if that was the case then they would make f/a's go through the window exit in RET... Now that would keep costs down... HALF GONE INSTANTLY.... Which should be the case anyway... Half of these lazy broads can't make it down the aisle.... US and Foreign domiciles...

Clearly you´re not interested in having a mature debate about Foreign Domiciles and the economics that go along with it.

Offending hard working F/As will not validate your point of view in any way, shape or form.

There aren´t anymore Foreign Domicles in LHR due to Governmental restrictions.

 

[mrman]

Oh please, this is 6 airlines in the WORLD.... This is like comparing Emirates to AMR.. WE all know which is better.... UAL has never been good at keeping costs down, if that was the case then they would make f/a's go through the window exit in RET... Now that would keep costs down... HALF GONE INSTANTLY.... Which should be the case anyway... Half of these lazy broads can't make it down the aisle.... US and Foreign domiciles...

Why the attitude and anger. It's a message board and a simple discussion, not a religion

 

[sastal]

Hi C obviously does not understand what a legal disaster UA would have on its hands if it tried to shut down any of those bases. Does he/she think that it would not have a repercussion on the airline in the long term? I suggest making a cost-benefit analysis and see the results.

About the office space, it is minimal; a 747 could pack up the domiciles in a few hours. The argument that it costs a lot to have an office there is absurd. Also, the staff in the bases is paid much less than comparable employees in the U.S.

Finally, what is it with all the acrimony? Wal-Mart does not pay as much as what a well-vested f/a flying internationally makes. The benefits, working conditions, and flexibility at WM do not even come close.

I no longer work for the airline, so I have no interest in making these arguments. I suggest Hi C transfer to one of the bases. It is an incredible experience and a chance to make lifetime friendships. I am still in touch with a number of people from one of the bases. United would make a big mistake and hurt a lot of people if it went down the path Hi C suggests.

 

[Hi-C-Camp]

Hi C obviously does not understand what a legal disaster UA would have on its hands if it tried to shut down any of those bases. Does he/she think that it would not have a repercussion on the airline in the long term? I suggest making a cost-benefit analysis and see the results.

About the office space, it is minimal; a 747 could pack up the domiciles in a few hours. The argument that it costs a lot to have an office there is absurd. Also, the staff in the bases is paid much less than comparable employees in the U.S.

Finally, what is it with all the acrimony? Wal-Mart does not pay as much as what a well-vested f/a flying internationally makes. The benefits, working conditions, and flexibility at WM do not even come close.

I no longer work for the airline, so I have no interest in making these arguments. I suggest Hi C transfer to one of the bases. It is an incredible experience and a chance to make lifetime friendships. I am still in touch with a number of people from one of the bases. United would make a big mistake and hurt a lot of people if it went down the path Hi C suggests.

It is not about hurting friendships etc... It is obvious you know longer work for the airline, do you have any idea what f/as make these days??? Evidently not... I know for a fact that you can go anywhere and i mean anywhere and make more than a 7 or 8 year flight attendant... One of my dear friends is based in London and is on reserve and flies 1 or 2 trips a month and can barely afford Ramen noodles... You seriously are living in the day of the 80's ... Which is no longer... Maybe you would like to explain what "legal" disaster we are talking about... I don't believe any.... Kind of like how the Paris folks tried to sue.. Please.. This is a business not a friendship lollipop gig...

 

[sastal]

It is not about hurting friendships etc... It is obvious you know longer work for the airline, do you have any idea what f/as make these days??? Evidently not... I know for a fact that you can go anywhere and i mean anywhere and make more than a 7 or 8 year flight attendant... One of my dear friends is based in London and is on reserve and flies 1 or 2 trips a month and can barely afford Ramen noodles... You seriously are living in the day of the 80's ... Which is no longer... Maybe you would like to explain what "legal" disaster we are talking about... I don't believe any.... Kind of like how the Paris folks tried to sue.. Please.. This is a business not a friendship lollipop gig...

My friend made $35 to $40k last year with maxed out seniority. With my eight years in '03, I was making a decent wage (between $30k and $35k, I believe), with international per diem and four trips per month. It is your great misconception that the market pays as much as it does. Where are you going to earn more than said salary coming out of an almost 10-year career at the airline? Do not omit the opportunity cost of making money on your days off, either. Real estate used to be the typical gig for crew members, and now that is out of the question.

The legal disaster would come in the form of lawsuits from UAs workforce and penalties by various governments to the airline. The Paris people had a place to go after they shut down the base, so they could not argue that they were no longer employable. By the way, the French still enjoy their French benefits at their new domiciles. In any event, the bases still offer a cost advantage to the airline, and anyone can see why.