Fragment Clause

[Borescope]

Why can't you and others who share your outlook think positive?

Shouldn't it be...................... "Cant we all just get along?"

 

[BottomFeeder]

Exactly. The deal makes no sense to Parker outside of BK for this reason. As stated before, DALPA has heard the confidential details of the plan and will do whatever it takes to stop it. The other creditors will weigh the prospect of an irate pilot group and the effect it will have on their investment.

757

So where is your fragment clause?

What is Moak saying to you about fragment?

 

[MMB]

B) B) B) They along with their f/a's are scared shi$$less because they screwed everybody in their past mergers. Bad KARMA-

Still waiting for you to back this up.

 

[BoeingBoy]

and it is not a merger

Read what you yourself posted....

"This policy shall be applicable when two or more AFA-CWA-represented carriers engage in any merger, consolidation, acquisition of control, purchase, sale, lease or other similar transactions or arrangement between or among them, involving their previously separate airline operations or services previously performed by them as separate airlines, in a manner that may affect the seniority rights of the flight attendants (all hereafter referred to as "merger" for purposes of this policy)."

Seems like the AFA considers any kind of consolidation of carriers a "merger".....

Jim

 

[NYCDelta]

Read what you yourself posted....

"This policy shall be applicable when two or more AFA-CWA-represented carriers engage in any merger, consolidation, acquisition of control, purchase, sale, lease or other similar transactions or arrangement between or among them, involving their previously separate airline operations or services previously performed by them as separate airlines, in a manner that may affect the seniority rights of the flight attendants (all hereafter referred to as "merger" for purposes of this policy)."

Seems like the AFA considers any kind of consolidation of carriers a "merger".....

Jim

Thank you, Jim. But I doubt "donttouchthebeauty" can understand that. He/she has exemplified what kind of person they are by their posts on this board.

 

[MMB]

That doesnt make a rats arse differnce as well - it doesnt matter which group is larger... they will go union either way or chaos will happen..

Now THAT sounds like fun!
I vote for chaos, followed by the union being shown the door. But chaos first, I LIKE IT! 😛

 

[PHLfa88]

Care to back up your LIES with cold hard facts? Unless you can-anything you say is completely irrelevant. We've only merged with Chicago & Southern, Northeast, and Western. They all got raises with their seniority-and I never heard any of them complaining. We bought Pan Am ASSETS, and offered SOME of their F/A's jobs. Even they got SOME seniority, which I believe is better than being unemployed. And, I'm sorry you are too dense to understand this, because it's been talked about ad nauseum, but AFA bylaws state DATE OF HIRE. So, get off the DL board, and go spew your negativity soemwhere else. We don't need it here!

Ask Any Of Your F/A's From Western! They Lost 8 Years Worth of Senority..How's That For Cold Hard Fact!!

 

[PHLfa88]

No, sweetie, get YOUR facts straight. If you go to AFANET.org, and read for yourself (if you are able to), it states that AFA provides for date of hire in any merger with an AFA or Non-AFA carrier-period. And, besides a merger with UAL, we would be the bigger workgroup, so we all would have to vote to continue with AFA, or any other union for that matter. Once again-this has been talked about at least a dozen times. Once again-you have no idea what you're saying. You make flight attendants look really stupid. Now fly away back to the US board before someone drops a house on you too!
But you didn't answer my question. Where are the FACTS about how poorly we treated others that we merged with? Again, I'll refer you and anyone else who's interested to get the FACTS before spewing such rubbish. You sound like an idiot. All the these FACTS can be found in the AFA bylaws under "mergers". Additionally, if DL and US merge, we may have NO UNION if we don't get a majority vote. And I can guarantee that any union that wants to represent the 14000+ flight attendants of the "new" Delta, will ensure DOH.
Thanks, and I agree. NONE of my friends at US or HP even gives a rat's *ss about any of this crap. As long as they get paid-that's fine with them. I just can't stand flight attendants who say such ridiculous things, because they make us all look foolish and uneducated.

Why Don't You Post What Your Dear Paulette, VP Inflight Wrote To All Of You In December? I'm Sure ALL of Us Here Would Just LOVE To Comment On That!! For What You Have Just Stated On Here Contradicts What She Is Telling All Of You!! Here, Let Me Post it For You!


Dear Paulette:

We are responding to your anti-union campaign message entitled "Your Voice" sent to us on December 7th. Presumably, your defensive communication was in response to the recent communication by NWA flight attendant, Danny Campbell - where he clearly illustrated the importance of union contract protections in a merger or acquisition (http://www.deltaafa.org/Labor%20Protections%20Letter.htm).

You completely failed to address the importance of Labor Protective Provisions - choosing instead to continue to mislead Delta flight attendants about the American/TWA merger. As Mr. Campbell pointed out, the TWA flight attendants simply did not have the same contractual protections Campbell referenced from the NWA flight attendants' contract. The outcome in the AA-TWA merger had nothing to do with the fact that both groups had a union. Rather, the specific language in the TWA contract did not support their seniority rights.

In no way did the IAM, the union that represented the TWA flight attendants at the time of the merger, agree to staple the TWA flight attendants to the bottom of the list. In fact, the IAM sued APFA (the American flight attendants' union) for taking this position. The real problem was that management at American Airlines, which was the acquiring carrier, conditioned its agreement to buy TWA upon the unions giving up the merger protection provisions of their contract. So, all the platitudes from TWA management about protecting their employees went out the window. Those same promises are what you are offering today, when you know you cannot control what management at the acquiring carrier might do absent a binding commitment in a legal contract.

Again, AFA-CWA was not the Union representing either flight attendant group in the American/TWA merger and therefore those flight attendants were not afforded the protection of the AFA-CWA Constitution and Bylaws which ensures each flight attendants' date of hire seniority. Why have you deliberately failed (for a second time now) to point out this important fact?

(Paulette Says):

You state "...union organizers have begun the ugly business of manipulating your concerns for their own benefit. Instead of focusing on keeping you informed, the organizers are focused on exploiting your fears."

Let's look at who is manipulating whom here. There is no personal "benefit" for the staff and volunteer organizers in AFA-CWA. Airlines executives often make millions no matter how well they perform (eg., even in bankruptcy); some executive's jobs depend on their ability to keep a union from organizing a company's workers. You have every incentive to manipulate flight attendant concerns. By contrast, there is no economic gain in the hard work union activists do, just a commitment to use our shared experience for our mutual protection.

It is not fear that is being exploited, except with misleading information like your letters. Again the contrast is clear: the union is promoting a campaign of education and facts; the company is dealing in fear tactics . The fact is that only a Union voice and a Union contract will guarantee seniority protections for Delta flight attendants. While your letter does acknowledge just how important it is for our seniority rights to be protected, you then start dancing:

(Paulette Says):

'Seniority is important, but you don't need a union to help. It's important, but let Delta management take care of it. Trust us. Seniority is important, but let's just wait and see.' And, "I want to personally assure you that I, and the rest of your Delta leaders including the Executive Council, are strongly committed to protecting our own employees' seniority."


LET DELTA MGMT TAKE OF YOU!!What A JOKE!!!


We all agree on one thing: seniority is important.

But all you can offer us, is this:

(Paulette Says):

" ...Delta would never agree to any merger, acquisition or similar transaction that did not provide for the fair and equitable integration of seniority lists for our employees."

Sounds good, especially to those of us who are worried about what might happen to our seniority if there's a merger. But your letter isn't worth the paper it's written on, and you know it.

If Delta executives were genuinely interested in protecting us, you would agree to the only thing that can protect our seniority: a legally binding union contract. But, it appears you have no interest in that kind of real solution and instead are working hard to prevent us from organizing to protect ourselves.

Let's face it: you want to talk about seniority protection, but you're not willing to do anything about it. Talk is cheap. If you're not going to give us any legally binding protection, then you should stop talking about it.

AFA contracts, and AFA's Constitution and Bylaws protect flight attendant seniority. It's that simple. You can dance around the issue but you can't do anything about it. The company's empty promises mean nothing. Only a union contract can provide real, legally binding protection.

Sincerely,

DELTA FLIGHT ATTENDANTS
IT'S TIME... for AFA-CWA

Looks Like Delta Is Looking Out for YOUR Best Interest!!

 

[BoeingBoy]

Thank you, Jim.

I've just never been able to understand this whole "If you don't want what I want something is wrong with you" thing or the apparent unbridled lust of some to improve their lot in life by taking from someone else.

During my 27+ years, I've always viewed other airline's employees as no different from myself - just wanting to have a career. They've never been an enemy to be vanquished, defeated, or whatever. Heck, we're all at the mercy of forces largely out of our control and along for the ride.

Jim

 

[NYCDelta]

Why Don't You Post What Your Dear Paulette, VP Inflight Wrote To All Of You In December? I'm Sure ALL of Us Here Would Just LOVE To Comment On That!! For What You Have Just Stated On Here Contradicts What She Is Telling All Of You!! Here, Let Me Post it For You!

First, why would I post a letter to Delta flight attendants on this forum? It's not intended for this audience. But, since you took it upon yourself to post it anyway, for whatever reason, then by all means, anyone who would "JUST LOVE" to comment on it-feel free. It serves no purpose, other than start a pro-union v. anti-union debate, which I won't be a part of.
As I've stated before, I don't have a union at DL but I do have one at my "other" job. I have always truly felt that I didn't need one at Delta, because I felt I was treated fairly, and was compensated adequately for the job that I performed. I've enjoyed it immensely and have seen the world. The only post I've ever made on the DL board re:seniority was in response to US flight attendants (like yourself) who for whatever reason feel the need to constantly start sh**. Hey, whatever gets you off. You won't see me on the US board doing that, not because I'm in any way better than you, I just don't have the time nor the inclination. Have a good day! 🙂

Ask Any Of Your F/A's From Western! They Lost 8 Years Worth of Senority..How's That For Cold Hard Fact!!

Really? Wow-I shared an apartment in NYC with 3 former Western F/A's and not ONE of them lost 8 years in seniority. And, they were thrilled to fly Int'l with DL, something they didn't have much of at Western. I guess their union should have negotiated a better system of integration.

 

[ClueByFour]

B) B) B) They along with their f/a's are scared shi$$less because they screwed everybody in their past mergers. Bad KARMA- what goes around comes around. DAL F/A's WILL NEVER , EVER GET their senority from UAL or NWA. So remember this is what alot of this is all about, and the fact that they actually BELIEVE they have a say in what happens LOLOL...

Delta's FAs will get DOH if the US merger goes down. Take it to the bank. They outnumber the combined US/HP list and can decertify the union if they get screwed. AFA won't allow that to happen. Take DOH to the bank.

 

[Fly]

Wrong.....UAL gave them seniority. Trust me. They hired me, and about 4 years after my hire, I was 4000 people lower in seniority. Not quite the way I was hoping to go.

(questions??? Why do you want them to be ruined? Don't you think DOH seems fair? Doesn't the AA nonsense seem painful enough? ?

 

[Itestwell]

The DL/US merge would be DOH.

 

[MMB]

Delta's FAs will get DOH if the US merger goes down. Take it to the bank. They outnumber the combined US/HP list and can decertify the union if they get screwed. AFA won't allow that to happen. Take DOH to the bank.

According to Parker, the "New Delta" will start off, union wise, as Delta is now; no unions other than pilots and dispatchers.

"We’ve been very clear all along with regard to representation. Any decision to unionize is a matter for employees of the new Delta. US is not opposed to union representation, and we will respect the voice of the employees at the new Delta."
http://www.buildingabetterairline.com/docu...hs_pensions.pdf

Yep, I told you this was about union busting.

 

[Itestwell]

According to Parker, the "New Delta" will start off, union wise, as Delta is now; no unions other than pilots and dispatchers.

"We’ve been very clear all along with regard to representation. Any decision to unionize is a matter for employees of the new Delta. US is not opposed to union representation, and we will respect the voice of the employees at the new Delta."
http://www.buildingabetterairline.com/docu...hs_pensions.pdf

Yep, I told you this was about union busting.

How is this about Union busting? Fact is, if we merge with DL, we would have to decide whethere to be represented by AFA or not. We cannot just merge with a large airline like DL and say "you are now AFA." There has to be a vote....