France best, U.S. worst in preventable deaths

[delta777]

Kind of confirms what Michael Moore said in "SICKO", which admittedly was wrong on some facts claimed in the film. However, this would certainly seem to give credence to many of the films claims as well. Is this capitalism at work? We as a nation seem to be falling further behind in virtually every standard-of-living category. I suppose when the almighty dollar is the overriding factor in businesses decisions, the needs of the people are put to the side.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22554235/

 

[North by Northwest]

It is this obsession with credit, instant gratitude with a sense of entitlement. It is allowing a small "group" control our destiny through a PRIVATE BANK called the FEDERAL RESERVE. Which is neither FEDERAL or a Reserve. This bank has NO affiliation to the US government or it's people, yet we allow it to control our money.

Whoever controls the money...controls the Nation.

They have dumbed down the population to the point that they are like sheep....THAT is why Ron Paul is such a threat to them.

 

[leprechaun]

Is he French?

 

[Gilding the Lily]

It is allowing a small "group" control our destiny through a PRIVATE BANK called the FEDERAL RESERVE. Which is neither FEDERAL or a Reserve. This bank has NO affiliation to the US government or it's people, yet we allow it to control our money.

Imagine though if it was subject to the federal government's whim and continual change in fiscal and economic policy (which occurs after each election, if not more). Political independence is key.

And don't forget, France is also under a central bank that is not affiliated politically.

 

[777 fixer]

Kind of confirms what Michael Moore said in "SICKO", which admittedly was wrong on some facts claimed in the film. However, this would certainly seem to give credence to many of the films claims as well. Is this capitalism at work? We as a nation seem to be falling further behind in virtually every standard-of-living category. I suppose when the almighty dollar is the overriding factor in businesses decisions, the needs of the people are put to the side.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22554235/

I've said it before and I'll say it again. One of the biggest problems we have when it comes to health care in the US is the American people themselves. What I'm talking about is obesity. Just compare the obesity rates in the US and France, or the US to any other country for that matter. Obesity is a 100% preventable condition, a condition that costs the US billions every year.

So all you people out there who want to blame the system might want to look at you fellow Americans first. Ironically enough Michael Moore is part of the problem. He's been overwieght/obese most of his adult life. Given his age its only a matter of time before he will require some sort of medical care related to obesity. Care that is going to cost his insurance company money.

 

[local 12 proud]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. One of the biggest problems we have when it comes to health care in the US is the American people themselves. What I'm talking about is obesity. Just compare the obesity rates in the US and France, or the US to any other country for that matter. Obesity is a 100% preventable condition, a condition that costs the US billions every year.

So all you people out there who want to blame the system might want to look at you fellow Americans first. Ironically enough Michael Moore is part of the problem. He's been overwieght/obese most of his adult life. Given his age its only a matter of time before he will require some sort of medical care related to obesity. Care that is going to cost his insurance company money.

BINGO!

 

[777 fixer]

Is it me or does this seem wrong on so many levels.

< http://travel.discovery.com/tv/feasty-boys/feasty-boys.html >

 

[local 12 proud]

Is it me or does this seem wrong on so many levels.

< http://travel.discovery.com/tv/feasty-boys/feasty-boys.html >

Not any more than this Sicko

 

[Garfield1966]

Yes 777 I saw that as well and I agree, it is a bit twisted.

I agree that we are a big part of the problem but there are other substantial issues with our health care system.

My mom was in Germany several years ago (about 6 or 7) and she fell. She broke her elbow/arm in 3 different locations (she was in her mid 70's at the time). She was in the hospital for 11 days. She had surgery where they placed several screws and a plate in her arm. She had IV antibiotics, PT and a semi-private room for the entire 11 days. When my dad got the bill several weeks later in came out to a whopping $5k and change. The insurance he had would not cover it. Aside from the fact that had she been treated in the US she would have been booted from the hospital in a day or 2 max, no PT, no IV ....etc. And aside from the fact that the cost probably would have been 4 or 5 or more times more expensive. Why on earth should we have a health care system that charges that much money and gives such crappy service? I would rather be paying more tax and having a health system tat will be there for me when I need it.

Now I know our government/we are not capable of running a health care system such as what my mom experienced in Germany (perhaps we should hire the Germans to run it for us?) but my point is that we are not the sole cause of the problems with our system (or perhaps we are insofar as our apathy has allowed it to get to it's current state).

 

[Gilding the Lily]

Why on earth should we have a health care system that charges that much money and gives such crappy service? I would rather be paying more tax and having a health system tat will be there for me when I need it.

Garfield,

You should consider saving what you are not paying in higher taxes then and putting it in your own "health care" account for those times when you need it.

If your response is that you could not save quite enough to pay for your own health protection, then by asking for higher taxes you are essentially asking for healthy people to pay more for services in which only the unhealthy people are reaping the benefits (it is not a benefit for a healthy person to pay more for what they are getting). Such a system could cause two things: 1) it encourages unhealthy lifestyles and 2) it serves as an incentive to abuse a public health care system.

 

[Garfield1966]

Garfield,

You should consider saving what you are not paying in higher taxes then and putting it in your own "health care" account for those times when you need it.

If your response is that you could not save quite enough to pay for your own health protection, then by asking for higher taxes you are essentially asking for healthy people to pay more for services in which only the unhealthy people are reaping the benefits (it is not a benefit for a healthy person to pay more for what they are getting). Such a system could cause two things: 1) it encourages unhealthy lifestyles and 2) it serves as an incentive to abuse a public health care system.

I agree to a point. The thing is at current rates I would venture to guess that less tan 1% of todays society cold afford to pay for their own hospital visit. I got food poisoning or a intestinal virus several years ago. I was in ER and then in the hospital for 3 days. Nothing to do with my life style/eating habits (I was at a restaurant). My moms surgery would have cost a small fortune as well. At some point, a large portion of society will end up in the hospital at some point. I think it is more cost effective for society to pay for health care for all of society (group discount as it were) than to do it on a case by case basis. I know that there is no way in hell I could pay for the hospital visit (IIRC it was somewhere around $20k+) much less what mom mom had and still be able to make all my other obligations. What if my heart starts to give out due to bad genetics? What if I get in a bad accident not caused by my negligence? Just as I pay taxes to help pay for other kids education (I have none of my own) I see no problem with society having to contribute to health care which in all likely hood, nearly everyone will take advantage of at one point or another. Kind of like insurance. Don't want it but wen the time comes, you are glad you have it.

 

[Gilding the Lily]

I agree to a point. The thing is at current rates I would venture to guess that less tan 1% of todays society cold afford to pay for their own hospital visit. I got food poisoning or a intestinal virus several years ago. I was in ER and then in the hospital for 3 days. Nothing to do with my life style/eating habits (I was at a restaurant). My moms surgery would have cost a small fortune as well. At some point, a large portion of society will end up in the hospital at some point. I think it is more cost effective for society to pay for health care for all of society (group discount as it were) than to do it on a case by case basis. I know that there is no way in hell I could pay for the hospital visit (IIRC it was somewhere around $20k+) much less what mom mom had and still be able to make all my other obligations. What if my heart starts to give out due to bad genetics? What if I get in a bad accident not caused by my negligence? Just as I pay taxes to help pay for other kids education (I have none of my own) I see no problem with society having to contribute to health care which in all likely hood, nearly everyone will take advantage of at one point or another. Kind of like insurance. Don't want it but wen the time comes, you are glad you have it.

Yeah. Our current system really needs changes; no doubt about that. But it is very difficult for me to think of examples where the government has made things cheaper or more efficient.

Only a few may be able to afford a hospital visit on their own now as you say... but that is what insurance is for. Just think.. right now there are many, many people who cannot afford health insurance (agreed, not a good thing). If those people were -- all of a sudden -- able to ride other's coat tails and be able to start using the health system *frequently*, then there will be an EXTREME adjustment to the cost structure. And it will be the middle class who gets the raw end of the stick. Now they can go to the doctor, but they cannot pay the electric bill or afford anything but green beans. Should we help them with their electric? I say, let those people make their own priorities. Lets try to fix a problem without creating a bigger one.

 

[Garfield1966]

But aren't the uninsured already riding our coat tails? My wife was in the ER a few nights ago and there was a couple the according to the nurse, is in there all the time (1 time a month at least). Since they do not have medical insurance, they use the ER for health care (I thought I read that ER care is substantially more costly than normal care).

I agree that the US government could not govern it's way out of a paper bag but there has to be some sort of med care for all of society that everyone pays into. In the long run, I have read that it will cost less. Preventative care is far less expensive. So either we all pay a little now or we pay more later.

The current system is beyond broken. I am not sure I like the idea of th government getting involved but at this point I do not know that it could get worse.

 

[Gilding the Lily]

But aren't the uninsured already riding our coat tails?

They are; but obviously it is not nearly to the extent of what it would be like for a "national health program." If it was, then we wouldn't hear the resounding gong of public healthcare supporters.

 

[Garfield1966]

They are; but obviously it is not nearly to the extent of what it would be like for a "national health program." If it was, then we wouldn't hear the resounding gong of public healthcare supporters.

Not necessarily. This country does not look long term. I'll have to see if I can find it again but I remember reading that the cost of taking care of uninsured medical problems (illegals not with standing) is huge. If the people who did not have insurance were able to get preventative care, the costs would be substantially less.

People do not like giving others a free ride and I understand (even agree to a point) but if the people are going to get care regardless ten I would rather do it the cheapest way possible. I do not think you expect people to e turned out on the street if they cannot afford care so if we have to care for them anyway, would it not behoove us to find a better way to do it?