Furloughed US Airways Pilots

[Groucho]

By now you have all heard about the Nicolau award and how it will effect you. If the East pilots attempt a representational election to replace ALPA then you will have a say in this process whether you are furloughed or not. The only way to not be on this list an eligible to vote is if you have waved all recall rights in writing . Being eligible to vote has nothing to do with your current ALPA status or current employer. You can vote or not vote if you choose when and if an election is called.

Section 502 NMB site.
Furloughed Employees are eligible to vote in draft or class in which they last worked from which they were furloughed, If they retain and employer- employee relationship and have a reasonable expectation of returning to work. Furloughed employees regularly working in another class and craft for the same carrier, are ineligible to vote in the class and craft from which they were furloughed.

Since all the recalls have been sent you have a reasonable expectation of returning to work

I would invite all furloughed US Airways pilots to go to:

www.helicopter.com/aaa and sign up to be on the Yahoo board.

We need your name, employee number, and place on the new list, if you know it, so we can look you up and send an invitation. Please stay involved even if you are not sure what you are going to do. You will have a voice in this process if it comes time to call for an election.

 

[Bud8EE]

By now you have all heard about the Nicolau award and how it will effect you. If the East pilots attempt a representational election to replace ALPA then you will have a say in this process whether you are furloughed or not. The only way to not be on this list an eligible to vote is if you have waved all recall rights in writing . Being eligible to vote has nothing to do with your current ALPA status or current employer. You can vote or not vote if you choose when and if an election is called.

Section 502 NMB site.
Furloughed Employees are eligible to vote in draft or class in which they last worked from which they were furloughed, If they retain and employer- employee relationship and have a reasonable expectation of returning to work. Furloughed employees regularly working in another class and craft for the same carrier, are ineligible to vote in the class and craft from which they were furloughed.

Since all the recalls have been sent you have a reasonable expectation of returning to work

I would invite all furloughed US Airways pilots to go to:

www.helicopter.com/aaa and sign up to be on the Yahoo board.

We need your name, employee number, and place on the new list, if you know it, so we can look you up and send an invitation. Please stay involved even if you are not sure what you are going to do. You will have a voice in this process if it comes time to call for an election.

That almost makes it a done deal if that is the direction that is eventually taken.

 

[aquagreen73s]

That almost makes it a done deal if that is the direction that is eventually taken.

Until the next merger when ALPA comes right back onto the property.

 

[Bud8EE]

Until the next merger when ALPA comes right back onto the property.

None of the merger protections that the Teamsters(East) will build in, will have any effect on that I guess. Oh, thats right, this really isn't a mess and your alarm is going to go off in 15 minutes.

 

[b737fo]

None of the merger protections that the Teamsters(East) will build in, will have any effect on that I guess. Oh, thats right, this really isn't a mess and your alarm is going to go off in 15 minutes.

If we merge again with a group larger than the East pilots, I would be willing to bet that ALPA would be back. Opinion only of course.

 

[Bud8EE]

If we merge again with a group larger than the East pilots, I would be willing to bet that ALPA would be back. Opinion only of course.

The mess is the same and the damage this did to the union and will continue to do will be irreparable. ALPA has been on the ropes when it comes to CBA's for a long time, minus the brief respite of 1999-2001. It took CAL more than 15 years to get back in the ball park, and when you compare pre 83 real wages, they just got back into the ball park of depressed wages that had never recovered from that event and ALPA's first post deregulation crisis and failure. US Airways will be a third rate airline with a third rate contract, through no fault of the employees other than being party to ALPA's failure and it will affect all the rest of the industry and for a very long time.

 

[aquagreen73s]

If we merge again with a group larger than the East pilots, I would be willing to bet that ALPA would be back. Opinion only of course.

And using the word "if" is being generous; more likely "when" we merge again. The only way out of the mess that the industry is wallowing in is through liquidations or through consolidations. The Wall Street middlemen don't make much in liquidations, but they make a fortune underwriting the consolidations. The BK attorneys do well in liquidations but transaction law firms also do quite well with M&As. Finally, as has been proven here, the top brass does extremely well during M&As. Wall Street is basically one giant credit instrument that has a ravenous appetite for corporate debt issuance. The beast is hungry and wants the $30-$40 billion in new debt from a consolidating airline industy. Finally, with the East working under LOA 93 coupled with being the problem children, Doug's life will only get easier.

Prediction: Doug and Scott become somewhat scarce on the East and continue to let things fall apart. They have the perfect alibi. They let the East make the case for them to justify selling off parts of the operation. They won't say anything and they sure as heck won't try to fix anything. Think of it as a house in an ideal location that has been let go. The value is there, but it just needs the right kind of tenant. The market knows that and a company like SWA knows darn well they can make PHL an instant gold mine. Same goes for AMR and the shuttle. Those sales will be the offset for the UAL or DAL merger. The East might succeed in dumping ALPA, but by then the Parker/Kirby duo will have the next tryst lined up.

 

[Bud8EE]

And using the word "if" is being generous; more likely "when" we merge again. The only way out of the mess that the industry is wallowing in is through liquidations or through consolidations. The Wall Street middlemen don't make much in liquidations, but they make a fortune underwriting the consolidations. The BK attorneys do well in liquidations but transaction law firms also do quite well with M&As. Finally, as has been proven here, the top brass does extremely well during M&As. Wall Street is basically one giant credit instrument that has a ravenous appetite for corporate debt issuance. The beast is hungry and wants the $30-$40 billion in new debt from a consolidating airline industy. Finally, with the East working under LOA 93 coupled with being the problem children, Doug's life will only get easier.

Prediction: Doug and Scott become somewhat scarce on the East and continue to let things fall apart. They have the perfect alibi. They let the East make the case for them to justify selling off parts of the operation. They won't say anything and they sure as heck won't try to fix anything. Think of it as a house in an ideal location that has been let go. The value is there, but it just needs the right kind of tenant. The market knows that and a company like SWA knows darn well they can make PHL an instant gold mine. Same goes for AMR and the shuttle. Those sales will be the offset for the UAL or DAL merger. The East might succeed in dumping ALPA, but by then the Parker/Kirby duo will have the next tryst lined up.

Fact: Pilots are their own worst enemies. If that scenario were to happen, you will look at your paycheck 10 years from now and your real wages will be lower than today. Guaranteed. I only have another 18 months for my wages to be under assault, I hope it is the same for you.

Whether such a scenario as you describe spreads the disunity, or as the dinosaurs consolidate and Southwest, Airtran, Frontier, Jetblue, along with Virgin America, Skybus and whoever else pops up eats their lunch, the lessons of failed unionism will accelerate. Unity will be a dinosaur and the free market will reign supreme. There may be a dinosaur or two left, but there is likely to be diversification in the market, just like Europe and the remaining dinosaurs will be under assault. An assault that will always be encouraged by flim flam congressmen and local government officials hyping and promoting the next wave of low fares they can bring to their constituents. The type of airline won't determine your pay, just plain old supply and demand. Only difference, in Europe, they still have some semblance of unionism that isn't a sham.

If you think there is other positive scenario than ALPA rectifying this and creating an objective merger policy with some guiding principle behind it that may actually start a National Seniority list discussion you are crazy.

 

[b737fo]

The mess is the same and the damage this did to the union and will continue to do will be irreparable. ALPA has been on the ropes when it comes to CBA's for a long time, minus the brief respite of 1999-2001. It took CAL more than 15 years to get back in the ball park, and when you compare pre 83 real wages, they just got back into the ball park of depressed wages that had never recovered from that event and ALPA's first post deregulation crisis and failure. US Airways will be a third rate airline with a third rate contract, through no fault of the employees other than being party to ALPA's failure and it will affect all the rest of the industry and for a very long time.

I don't think you can pin this solely on ALPA. CAL spent most of those 15 years as an independent union. The Teamsters hasn't really had a lot of traction with the airlines they represent either. Unfortunately this has been an industry wide problem but I do agree though that ALPA, as the largest of the pilot unions, should be a leader in "taking back our profession".

 

[aquagreen73s]

Fact: Pilots are their own worst enemies. If that scenario were to happen, you will look at your paycheck 10 years from now and your real wages will be lower than today. Guaranteed. I only have another 18 months for my wages to be under assault, I hope it is the same for you.

With inflation running close to 10% (it's only running the 3% like the government says if you're a fasting pedestrian who lives in a Coleman tent) I don't doubt my paycheck would be less in a decade. But consider the alternative as proposed by some of the hotheaded and totally irrational East pilots.

Here, let's take a quiz. The following is a quote parroted by certain hotheads. Circle the correct choice to find out which side they come from:

"We (East/West) are going to burn this f@cking place and leave you (Easties/Westies) the ashes. . ."

If needed, I'll provide the answer key. No curve. No grade inflation. The only passing score is a 100%. That's why I say that if this irrationality really starts affecting the operation and future of LCC, then there is no choice but to slice and dice it. Bye bye PHL and bye bye Shuttle. Wither CLT and return the operation to status quo ante. If that's what it takes to combat total and complete irrationality, then so be it.

 

[Barberpole]

I understand the emotion and frustration from the East but advocating a de-certification drive is downright reckless. Not even taking into account lost earnings and union protection; what happens if we dump Alpa and then get bought by UAL 2 years from now? Do you guys want to end up with the short end of the stick again? Is the East h#ll bent on self destruction no matter what? Without Alpa merger policy we would likely get a very bad deal if acquired by an Alpa carrier. The East is screaming about the current situation but no active pilots moved back on a relative basis. TWA pilots would have died and gone to heaven if they got the same deal.

Parker has been very vocal about the need for more consolidation in the industry. It would be very easy for him to cash out and wash his hands of having to actually run an airline for the long haul. Think it through guys/gals...

 

[Freighterguynow]

Prediction: Doug and Scott become somewhat scarce on the East and continue to let things fall apart. They have the perfect alibi. They let the East make the case for them to justify selling off parts of the operation.

With 80% of the profits coming from the East and the only expansion systemwide the international in PHL I'll take my chances on which parts get sold off.

 

[aquagreen73s]

With 80% of the profits coming from the East and the only expansion systemwide the international in PHL I'll take my chances on which parts get sold off.

Exactly. Don't you understand what you just said? Ask yourself what's easier for Doug to do, fix it or sell it? Why bother trying to stop the hooligans from burning the place to the ground when SWA will pay who knows how much (probably a number with lots of zeros behind it). And that's just one scenario; ask yourself who now is going to get "divested" in the next merger. What about DAL part deux - which shuttle goes? Hmmmm. Which side has the attrition and the labor problems? Hmmmm.

Go ahead guys, try to burn it if it makes you feel better. Doug will just sell you off, pay the creditors and pocket the rest. You might even get an interview at the acquiring airline.

 

[autofixer]

You seem to be missing the point; we don't care! We are near retirement anyway. It is a horrible job anyhow. I sent out 3 resumes this week to potential non-aviation related employers.

 

[CV580ETOPS]

The mess is the same and the damage this did to the union and will continue to do will be irreparable. ALPA has been on the ropes when it comes to CBA's for a long time, minus the brief respite of 1999-2001. It took CAL more than 15 years to get back in the ball park, and when you compare pre 83 real wages, they just got back into the ball park of depressed wages that had never recovered from that event and ALPA's first post deregulation crisis and failure. US Airways will be a third rate airline with a third rate contract, through no fault of the employees other than being party to ALPA's failure and it will affect all the rest of the industry and for a very long time.

"USAirways will always be a third rate airline..."
Correct

"...with a third rate contract"
Correct again..boy,are you good!

"through no fault of the employees"
well, I guess 2 out of 3 isn't too bad.

The first 2 are correct not "through no fault of the employees",but because of them. I never met a larger group of people who walk around with a chip on their shoulder daring you to knock it off of them. They may do their jobs but they always give me the impression when I deal with them that they are doing you a big favor by doing so. Overall,this airline died years ago.It's just that no one cared enough to give it a christian burial. I really feel for the AWA people. Their product isn't much to be desired either. But at least they give me the impression they enjoy what they do when I fly on them.