Glad to have located our flyboys, or is it "the life of the rich and famous"

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Since the board is not perfect, I shall reprint for the benefit of UA24:
Nay, nay contraire my scholar of the skies. No black hair with tinge of gray, nor tat’s of any kind. Self absorbed, perhaps. You question my intelligence, and my demeanor. And from your empirical perch high in your flightdeck, you place me in amongst the peasantry, as you say, "in my small little world." What money that is taken from me will only put me back to where I was less than six months ago. My status….still employed. But what of you my fearless sky jockey. Where shall thou be and in what status? Oh my angry man who shakes with such savage talk, will you still be at my gate? We shall see…
 
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On 8/22/2002 4:39:34 PM

Master,

I have a vision of you. Probably black hair with hint of gray, mullit syled, beard or mustache probably both with a couple of tatoos. You are perhaps the most ignorant poster I have ever seen on any of these boards. AND THAT IS SAYING SOMETHING. Please, I am begging you, quit and go back to what ever job it was you loved before you decided to do all of us a favor and bring your ass back to UAL. You say the pilots are sucking this company dry everyday? What? Tough guys like you and the IAM run around saying "Hell no" to anything that remotely suggests saving the company from BK and you SAY I AM SUCKING the company dry. Give me a break. Who are the only employee's voluntarily discussing give backs to save all of our jobs. THE PILOTS MORON!! If your point of contention, big word for you I know, is that a pilot makes more money than you that will never change. You make more than a F/A, for good reason, and that as well will never change. CEO's and their flunkies make more than all of us and that will never change. Please quit caveman.

You end your post by saying "Don't ever question my ethics or desire to do the right thing." What a complete and utter joke!!!!!!!! You slander and demean other individuals and workgroups but somehow you are a saint. You are a typical blow hard ignorant to facts and history filled with selfimportance from your small station in life. Pleas moderator leave this post unedited because it is mild compared to what I really think. I am defending ALL my fellow employee's from this pariah.
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Nay, nay contraire my scholar of the skies. No black hair with tinge of gray, nor tat’s of any kind. Self absorbed, perhaps. You question my intelligence, and my demeanor. And from your empirical perch high in you ****pit, you place me in amongst the peasantry, as you say, in my small little world. What money that is taken from me will only put me back to where I was less than six months ago. My status….still employed. But what of you my fearless sky jockey. Where shall thou be and in what status? Oh my angry man who shakes with such savage talk, will you still be at my gate? We shall see…
 
mastermechanic,

First let me apologize for my comments sounding a little harsh. After re-reading them, I think my point may have come across the wrong way.

I certainly understand and sympathize with the frustrations you feel, as well as the mechanics as a whole. As employees of UA, we all have those frustrations to varying degrees. However, my point was that the current senior leadership of this company is going to change. Then what is the feeling going to be towards chipping in and helping turn this airline around? Is the IAM going to find yet another excuse to avoid helping turn things around? Like it or not, wage concessions are going to happen to all of us, one way or another. At some point, ALL of the employees need to realize that the only way this airline will survive and prosper long term is by putting aside selfishness and infighting and working together. Those folks not willing to do that should either leave on their own or be shown the door, because they'll do nothing but poison their work environment and those around them. That is the very mentality that we need to drive out of this company once and for all.
 
Sounds like a trip down memory lane. I assume you were here for the "ESOP"?
My loathing for the IAM is only outdone by the disdain that I hold for our management. The promises for a better day do not hold for me anymore, from anyone. Sacrifice is admirable, but suicide is stupidity. If my wages are "taken" from me, that is beyond my control. But I will not slit my wrists in hope it saves me from slitting my throat. I am berated from the public on my so-called un-realistic wages and lazy union mentality. My fellow employees "aka this board" slam me for not being a generous team player and go along with the status quo. All I am told is that I can go, as if this company belongs somehow more to others than it does to me. And through all of this mess, I report 6 days a week, and make them fly. I am argumentative with my own ranks. I do not believe in echelons, the mentality "that’s not my job" doesn't work for me. But it pervades everywhere and in everything here at United. And still, I'm not the player you want because I will hold my ground. Late last night, where were you or UA24 when I was high powering and taxiing 777's. Or while I replaced engine blow-out doors and main gear steering actuators? On the engine balance were you or sky nugget while we were changing the fan hub weights, catching an inbound and releasing another aircraft at the same time, with only a handful of people. And this is done day in and day out. Aw, but I forgot, I am just a muscle bound ego manic full of himself. I know others work hard here at United, I am around some of them everyday and they are my friends. It is to them that I hold my loyalty, and they say no.
 
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On 8/23/2002 5:53:23 PM

"Late last night, where were you or UA24 when I was high powering and taxiing 777's."

Wow, You actually taxied a 777?![8)]

"Or while I replaced engine blow-out doors and main gear steering actuators? On the engine balance were you or sky nugget while we were changing the fan hub weights,"

Maybe fighting the T-storms into and out of ORD and DEN.

"catching an inbound and releasing another aircraft at the same time, with only a handful of people."

The company will gladly hire some rampers for the inbound and releasing if you just ask them (let them).

"And this is done day in and day out."

Wow, Day in AND day out!? That's almost like a job!!

Aw, but I forgot, I am just a muscle bound ego manic full of himself.

No comment needed, your comments say it all.

"I know others work hard here at United, I am around some of them everyday and they are my friends. It is to them that I hold my loyalty, and they say no."

And we'll all go down together. Nice. Didn't your mom ever ask you if all your friends jumped off a bridge would you? Does the term "suicide pact" ring a bell?
 
and can you believe it Busdrvr...they let a muscle head moron like me move that big 'ol airplane just like you pretty boys...yes'm, they musta made a mistake to let this 'ol marine just touch all those highly sophisticated buttons and knobs and such...do ya think I can get some of that $250hr stuff too their big chief???
 
Busdrvr...it'll be alright buddy. Heck, it's only a job. I know my background in electronics, hydraulics, pneumatics, computers, entertainment systems, radar and satcomm limits me to a meaningless life on the farm, but hey, will it be worse than what I was making working with them "storm fighters" at UAL? But then again, with 16yrs...me thinks a whole lot of pilots be leaving 'fore me, yes'm flightdeck boss...green grass and high tides be over me thinks[:bigsmile:]
 
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On 8/23/2002 11:04:07 PM

and can you believe it Busdrvr...they let a muscle head moron like me move that big 'ol airplane just like you pretty boys...yes'm, they musta made a mistake to let this 'ol marine just touch all those highly sophisticated buttons and knobs and such...do ya think I can get some of that $250hr stuff too their big chief???
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I believe if you go to college, get a bachelor's degree of some kind, get about 5,000 hours of flight time AFTER you have passed all the FAA required flight tests to become a Private pilot, Commercial pilot, Instrument Pilot, Multi-Engine Pilot, Airline Transport Pilot, and "paid your dues" in either military aviation or the commuters, AND if the airline does not take a look at your driving record and see a speeding ticket, or you have a slight medical problem you did not even know about until they did the CBC/Chem Screen, or perhaps they won't like one of the answers you give on the technical part of the interview, or maybe you were a little defensive about them probing why you got a "C" grade in Freshman Economics 10 years ago.....THEN you might get to be a Guppy First Officer making $44,800. THEN, if you put in another 25-30 years, do not step on your pecker even ONCE or run afoul of the FAA, or bend any metal, or fail one of the medicals you take every six months or one of the drug tests you take randomly whenever the company sees fit, and you never fail a checkride, etc..etc.. etc..MAYBE then you will be able to make $250 per hour flying a 777 full of about 270 people across the 40 degree ocean in the middle of the night 120 miles from the nearest airport and then land in a thunderstorm or blizzard at sunrise in a foreign country where the ATC personnel BARELY speak English. AND, the best part is..YOU COULD...IF YOU WANTED. However, taxiing around the ramp is NOT a $250/hr job, but if it makes you feel like you could do the job anyway, more power to you, as I have NO illusions that I can change out an engine or switch out a rack in the E&E.

mancityfan
 
mastermechanic,

There is no doubting you feel passionately about what is happening, and from your writings, it appears you are passionate about your job, too. However, your opening salvos aimed at everyone at the company have led many people to pigeon-hole you as one of those "crazy grease monkeys." I am sure you are not, and I am sure you do an honest day's work for an honest day's pay (or what equeates for an honest day's pay these days).

However, that being said, I must point out that we are ALL in the same boat here at UAL, like it or not. If you must know, I have been one of the most vocal proponents of voting "NO" on the pilot ERP. I think it is a sham and the ATSB loan is being used as a hammer to force pay rate changes on the employees due to management's inability to get our financial house in order for the SHORT TERM cash crunch we face over the Winter. That was yesterday! Today, the landscape has changed somewhat. The markets have lost confidence (what little was left) in UAL, the company is floundering while we try and convince the new CEO we want to take the job and give him (or her!) something to come and work on.

Will 10% pay cuts be the AFA fix our problems? Or how about 20% for the IAM? Try 30% for ALPA, will that do? You see, it is not that the money will SAVE UAL, but that it will allow UAL to bend over and get what GWB is so graciously offering to us. The only problem is that he wants to hear labor squeal first. Should we? To each his own.

I used to be a Financial Analyst. A good job, with good benefits, and long hours at the mercy of "the man." I spent LOTS of time and money trying to get my dream job as an airline pilot. Do I want to protect that investment and dream? You bet! Do I think UAL will still be flying even AFTER a Chapter 11 filing...Of course! Do I think I will have to look for another flying job if UAL declares bankruptcy? Not until the bottom half of the seniority list is let go first, and at that point I might as well pack it in, because there will be about 20,000 pilots on the streets looking for jobs! Can I do something else? I would hope so, with two Bachelors degrees, A Master's degree, a Finance background and 3 years as an airline Captain under my belt! Would it be as great as flying? NO!

You see, I doubt ANY of the pilots who lose their jobs at UAL will suffer greatly. They will lose a job they love, but they ALL have a Bachelor's degree, they are all coming from a job where they were required to be both mentally and physically healthy and drug-free, and they ALL know how to act in a mature fashion at work. All of these traits are valued in the workplace. As for the money, we all managed to survive BEFORE we got here on less than minimum wage! While it might be an "adjustment" for many, we can all go back to living the way ALL pilots do before they get the "dream job" at the majors.

I am not so sure the grass is greener for ANY of us if we have to leave UAL, but if you honestly hink it is for you, I am glad. With your work ethic, I am sure you will do just fine. Maybe no flight benefits, no medical, or generous sick leave, or long breaks in the middle of the day, not many customers in the "real world" know or can accept the "deferral" process, but you love to fix stuff, so that will make the day go faster, too.

So, where is all this going? Nowhere fast...kinda like the ORD operation for the last few days, what with TRWs and then stalled fronts and low vis approaches and airplanes that seem to have more orange stickers by the day. I hope you DO stick to your guns, and I wish you luck. There are 84,000 of us who wish you luck, too, as we are all in this together. If ALPA wanted to kill this airline, we could. If IAM wanted to, they could. If mgmt wanted to, well, we can already see that they can do it better and stealthier than most. However, do we really want to cut off our nose to spite our face? Will the Studdeerts and Dutta's of the world REALLY feel the pain that we would? WIll life be better for you if we go to BK rather than the bargaining table? You have to judge that for yourself, and hope that 50% of the rest of your work group feel the same way.

However, you will, I hope, forgive the pilots if, after 6 months of studying the company's financials, sending out video tapes with 90 minutes of financial presentations, after discussing the future of the airline ad nauseum for the last 12 months, they decide they want to try and salvage something of a future for this airline, the employees, and, of course, themselves. One wonders if the guy who screws himself and others out of a job is better off than the guy who bends over backwards to help save the jobs of his own group and others, or whether he is worse off. I'll take MY medicine glass half full, you take yours any way you like it. Either way, the medicine is going to taste bad, but at least I will feel better knowing it was medicine and not poison.

I appreciate reading your views and gaining some insight into your thoughts on the current predicament. One can only hope they are a minority voewpoint for your workgroup, because if Chapter 11 does happen, and your ducks are not in a row with the company, it might sting a tad more than it will right now.

Good luck and thanks for the great work you do keeping 200,000 of us safe every day. Your contribution to UAL's exemplary safety record is overlooked by most, but not by the people who know what you do to keep us safe. Thanks, and keep up the good work!

mancityfan.
 
dang it...I just had another brainstorm...how 'bout the pilots all round up their retro checks and just sign them over to the company!!! Then you'll just start to feel what the mechanics feel, but then you'd have to do the restraining order thing and some will have to get fired for doing their job, and don't forget the forced overtime too...and lets not forget the forced vacation policy either...and throw that stupid flight time rule out...heck, 6 consecutive 8hrs day (no overtime you selfish little pigs, we know your not working anyways)...
 
heck...there I go again thinking like a mechanic....I should start thinking like ya'll and demand that $350hr stuff, have to keep that uniform all nice a purty ya know, plus...I need a gun now to protect all those little people cause I was once in the military ya know[:bigsmile:]
 
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On 8/23/2002 11:07:40 PM

heck...there I go again thinking like a mechanic....I should start thinking like ya'll and demand that $350hr stuff, have to keep that uniform all nice a purty ya know, plus...I need a gun now to protect all those little people cause I was once in the military ya know[:bigsmile:]
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Now, I was willing to give you the $250/hr stuff, but $350/hr is even too rich for a United pilot! And, as for the gun comment, I think you will find that SHOULD a gun ever be on the airplane, it is to protect the aircraft from becoming a WMD, not to save ANYONE on the aircraft! If there were hijackers on the aircraft systematically killing passengers one after the other, the gun would REMAIN IN THE ****PIT and be used ONLY IF THE ****PIT WAS BEING BREACHED. You see, the 757 is a 240,000 pound guided missile in the wrong hands...THAT is what the gun is meant to defend against. However, you appear to know about this as you were a Marine and I was not in the military and have only shot a handgun at the range. I defer to your superior knowledge on the subject.

mancityfan
 
To you mancityfan I apologize, I came to pick a fight as you can tell. We are trying so hard everyday to prove we are worth what we have fought for, and it's tearing us up that we can't save this company with just hard work. We all gave to save this company for so long, and it was more profitable than any other airline, and then they screwed us so bad. This is where I want to be and this is what I am good at doing, but they don't care. Now all of us are years older, and still picking up the pieces. Now you guys want us to make a deal with these same people, jesus, I could "gut" them where they stand. We are so tired of being trampled, some of the best I knew are just walking shells anymore. I just don't know if its worth saving, I'm sorry.
 
I got a retro check of about $8,000, and I am a Captain. Let's for arguments sake say I am below the average, and make the average retro $10,000 . So, $10K times the 10,000 pilots we had on the property at C2K time would make the grand total of $100Million. Would it save us? We are offering $520Million oer three years, so I doubt the $100M is going to cut it. However, brainstorming is a good thing! Occasionally, it turns up a good idea. However, this time it fell about $47,000 short of my ERP concession, so it will probably be closer to $100,000 short of the concession President Bush is looking for.

mancityfan
 
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On 8/23/2002 10:59:13 PM

Busdrvr...it'll be alright buddy. Heck, it's only a job. I know my background in electronics, hydraulics, pneumatics, computers, entertainment systems, radar and satcomm limits me to a meaningless life on the farm, but hey,

Which qualifies you to do what? How many other UAL mechs will be looking for a job at the same time competing against you?

will it be worse than what I was making working with them "storm fighters" at UAL? But then again, with 16yrs...me thinks a whole lot of pilots be leaving 'fore me, yes'm flightdeck boss...green grass and high tides be over me thinks[:bigsmile:]
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Look around. They can't fly a jet with less than 2 pilots, but they can hire somebody else to pick up the little wands and marshall me in.
 
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