Great Leader at AMR

[Hopeful]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Pilots-say-A...f-14340320.html

 

[Winglet]

This is all part of the Kabuki Dance that is also known as the RLA. The company has no interest in actually negotiating (since they know a new contract will cost them more) until the 11th hour. Arpey is not going to negotiate seriously until he has self-help staring him in the face. Not until it costs less to settle than it costs not to settle, will anything get done. This is nothing new and is totally expected.

 

[Hopeful]

This is all part of the Kabuki Dance that is also known as the RLA. The company has no interest in actually negotiating (since they know a new contract will cost them more) until the 11th hour. Arpey is not going to negotiate seriously until he has self-help staring him in the face. Not until it costs less to settle than it costs not to settle, will anything get done. This is nothing new and is totally expected.

No, it is not anything new, you're right. He is probably busy deciding what to do with his next round of PUPs come April.

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

Captain Hill seldom ceases to amaze me. Talk about disingenuous. APA called in the federal mediators to begin with, and now they want to bypass them to talk directly to Arpey? Make up your mind!

Is there actually any strategy in play at APA headquarters, or are they content to blow money on media, grievances, lobbying, etc. without producing any results?

 

[AAmilesman]

I sure as heck hope Hill is a better pilot than he is a union chief. It was utterly ridiculous for him to come out and ask to have Arpey meet with him. No CEO in his/her right mind would have agreed to such a meeting.

 

[Hopeful]

I sure as heck hope Hill is a better pilot than he is a union chief. It was utterly ridiculous for him to come out and ask to have Arpey meet with him. No CEO in his/her right mind would have agreed to such a meeting.

If President Obama is willing to sit down face to face with Iran's Ahmadinejad, surely Arpey can meet with a union head.

 

[Boomer]

If President Obama is willing to sit down face to face with Iran's Ahmadinejad, surely Arpey can meet with a union head.

Only if Obama and Hill are willing to offer,"Peace in our time," as a result.

 

[Winglet]

Captain Hill seldom ceases to amaze me. Talk about disingenuous. APA called in the federal mediators to begin with, and now they want to bypass them to talk directly to Arpey? Make up your mind!

Is there actually any strategy in play at APA headquarters, or are they content to blow money on media, grievances, lobbying, etc. without producing any results?

The mediators have done no good. Mediators cannot force AA to negotiate in good faith if they refuse to do so. AA continues to stall the negotiations with impunity from the mediators. All they want to do is to demand further cuts and concessions that they know that the APA cannot and will not accept and management will not even broach the subject of compensation, even after almost two years of negotiations. The "without producing results" part of your post is totally and completely due to company intransigence and demands to get a bankruptcy contract out of the pilots, while maintaining their own executive bonuses by not going through bankruptcy. You can't have productive negotiations with someone that refuses to do so. AA management is going for broke to try and break the pilots union, only it's not going to work this time. If management's plan is to force eventual self-help, they're doing a good job and they will probably get their wish at the rate they're going.

Capt Hill is demonstrating that the APA is going the extra mile to try and get AA off the dime. In Mr. Arpey's reply, he indicated that AA is just fine with the glacial rate of negotiations (nothing material accomplished in almost two years of talks). That is very telling. If and when the talks totally fail, there will be no question that AA management is at fault. AA knows they're next pilot contract is going recover some of the huge concessions that the APA gave in 2003. They just want to stall that as long as possible. The ultra-slow pace of negotiations benefits AA, certainly not the APA. In the meantime, self-help preparations are picking up speed at the APA and hopefully the Obama administration will re-center the slanted tenor of the NMB.

The bill for the failure of AA leadership to regain employee confidence and trust after the false and hollow "Work together, Win Together" slogan campaign, is now coming due.

 

[EX_AA_HDQ]

C'mon dude...I don't even work for the company anymore...so I have no horse in the race here...

But maybe y'all should look out the window and take a look at the economy...

Get yourselves a good deal that will drive the company into bankruptcy in six months so you can point more fingers at Arpey for mismanagement...

Yeah, I've been in a union...when I was a bag thrower...and I think it's all BS nowadays...

Union guys guys have become the biggest whining, sense-of-entitlement, woe-is-me people out there...

Get a freaking grip...no one owes you anything...would you bolt for better money somewhere else? Of course you would...so don't whine about loyalty or seniority...

You've been with the company 15 years? Great! Do they get to tell you you can't leave if you find something better? Of course not...you wouldn't be loyal, so why should they?

 

[Hopeful]

C'mon dude...I don't even work for the company anymore...so I have no horse in the race here...

But maybe y'all should look out the window and take a look at the economy...

Get yourselves a good deal that will drive the company into bankruptcy in six months so you can point more fingers at Arpey for mismanagement...

Yeah, I've been in a union...when I was a bag thrower...and I think it's all BS nowadays...

Union guys guys have become the biggest whining, sense-of-entitlement, woe-is-me people out there...

Get a freaking grip...no one owes you anything...would you bolt for better money somewhere else? Of course you would...so don't whine about loyalty or seniority...

You've been with the company 15 years? Great! Do they get to tell you you can't leave if you find something better? Of course not...you wouldn't be loyal, so why should they?

For someone who "has no horse in this race", you sure are talking like the owner of the equine telling the groomer how bad things are.
What is your advice to the executive who threatens to leave unless he/she gets an increase in compensation?

We are the whiners? The company has been singing the same tune even during the boom years.

 

[Winglet]

C'mon dude...I don't even work for the company anymore...so I have no horse in the race here...

But maybe y'all should look out the window and take a look at the economy...

Get yourselves a good deal that will drive the company into bankruptcy in six months so you can point more fingers at Arpey for mismanagement...

Yeah, I've been in a union...when I was a bag thrower...and I think it's all BS nowadays...

Union guys guys have become the biggest whining, sense-of-entitlement, woe-is-me people out there...

Get a freaking grip...no one owes you anything...would you bolt for better money somewhere else? Of course you would...so don't whine about loyalty or seniority...

You've been with the company 15 years? Great! Do they get to tell you you can't leave if you find something better? Of course not...you wouldn't be loyal, so why should they?

I got no problem with taking it to BK. Maybe it would clean out some of the dead wood in the executive suites. I'd also clean out the top of the seniority list when 1500 senior captains even sniff any hint of BK.

But, no bankruptcy contract without the bankruptcy. I'm not going to continue to take compensation hits in order to stay out of bankruptcy so management can continue to get bonuses. Besides, when I get furloughed, Obama will pay my mortgage.

 

[eolesen]

If President Obama is willing to sit down face to face with Iran's Ahmadinejad, surely Arpey can meet with a union head.

The difference there is that nObama isn't bright enough to know any better.


WInglet, you can say that a bankruptcy will "clean out the dead wood" in the executive suite, but I suggest you look at Frontier, United, Delta, and Northwest.

The executives went into the roach motel with gas masks, and came out the other side pretty much unscathed.

In the case of UA, they came out a lot richer for it. Can't say the same for the pilots, mechanics, or FA's, though....



Hopeful, you claim "executives threaten to leave unless he/she gets an increase in compensation"....

Got any sauce to go with the red herring? It's a great line to rally the troops, but I'm not sure there's any fact behind it. I know a lot of people L5 thru managing directors, and whenever they had a better job offer, the response almost always along the lines of "if you don't take the offer, I'd have to fire you for being an idiot..."

Sure, a few were talked into staying and got promotions down the line, but that's a different story. They probably would have been promoted with or without an outside offer.


I'd hate to see bankruptcy at AMR, but it's your game now, guys. My pension will be under the PBGC cap, so there's not much for me to lose except perhaps some unused AAdvantage upgrades and miles.

 

[Hopeful]

Hopeful, you claim "executives threaten to leave unless he/she gets an increase in compensation"....

Got any sauce to go with the red herring? It's a great line to rally the troops, but I'm not sure there's any fact behind it. I know a lot of people L5 thru managing directors, and whenever they had a better job offer, the response almost always along the lines of "if you don't take the offer, I'd have to fire you for being an idiot..."

Sure, a few were talked into staying and got promotions down the line, but that's a different story. They probably would have been promoted with or without an outside offer.

The red herring is the company stating that need to continue the PUP program so we don't lose the "KEY" talent especially in this economic state we are in.


Given the state of the economy and the airline industry, I say whoever wants to leave the company "unless".......let em go...
The company does not care that they are losing the "key" talent at all levels..

This company doesn't give a hoot about morale. It is so far detiorated that even getting back what they took from us won't be enough.
So management can keep preaching about how we need to be the best on time, best in customer service, yadadadada.....all in exchange for a $25 or $50 or $100 AIP payout....THEY CAN POUND SALT....

And just like you, if and when the PBGC takes over the pension, i'll take whatever they calculate.....No more giving the company service with a smile while we get raped.

With all the focus on corporate greed being exposed to the public, bankruptcy may no longer grant the greedy executives the payout due them. Let em get in line like the rest of us.

 

[oldbscaler]

I sure as heck hope Hill is a better pilot than he is a union chief. It was utterly ridiculous for him to come out and ask to have Arpey meet with him. No CEO in his/her right mind would have agreed to such a meeting.

Gee,
What ever happened to "pull together, win together". Somehow Arpy and company were willing to talk to the unions, when that was the theme of the day.
Then the pup happened!
And now he(Arpy) would not agree to a meeting with Hill??? Go figure. These guys are theives and self serving, short term, robber barons.
There is no airline leadershp here, just short term pup managers. It is a real shame.
Oh yea, we just don't understand "executive compensation"

 

[Bob Owens]

When you consider that Larry Gibbons, the boss over the mediators came from AIRCON its no suprise that the pilots havent felt that the mediators are being very helpful. All the NMB is there for is to delay the process. All the protections that Labor was given under the original RLA was stripped away by the Bankruptcy courts. Its no longer a balanced law, its purely punitive to workers. Its an unjust law.

By requesting to meet directly with Arpey, Hill was doing the right thing for his members, the stockholders and the flying public.

The pilots usually bend over backwards to keep things moving, maybe they shouldnt anymore since Arpey doesnt want to give them the time of day. If something breaks in the middle of nowhere, dont limp it back-write it up. Through trip with little ground time? Dont wait, write it up when it breaks. Mechanics could use the field trips, they're fed up as well with being broke.

Best of Luck to the APA in your fight to get what you've earned, back.