A settlement between US and UsAirways and AMR

[WorldTraveler]

Now You get it?

not sure who you are addressing or who robbed thinks he is kidding but the second part of the sentence is specifically what invalidates the first - and why DL will push the case as far as it needs to make the point that the DOJ is not legally allowed to make decisions about what carriers can/cannot use industry assets based on economic factors such as the price they can charge.

The US DOT is charged with ensuring that anti-competitive practices do not occur. They are not authorized or permitted to choosing one carrier over another solely on the basis of a perception of what type of fares that carrier might offer.

 

[700UW]

Show us the law that states they can or cant do.

 

[robbedagain]

Mike ive read that a feq so yes I got it n I understand it... the lawyer for doj n bill bauer himself said they welcome anyone to try but they said they dont see how delta n united would get any of the slots.... dl says it should be open to all airlines but I still have yet to find an actual article that says they are challenging the doj

 

[swamt]

The legal question that DL will require be answered is the legal basis for the WA and its revisions as well as the settlement agreement.

You do realize.that it is possible the settlement agreement and WN's potential to pick up dozens of LGA and DCA flight could be set aside, don't you?

The whole basis of the WA and WN's use of even 16 gates is at risk.

All for 2 gates at DAL

Really?  Where did you get this?  LOL...

 

[swamt]

that sure is a nice terminal you built at JFK,er, partially built only to continue to be downsizing your operation around it.
 
Methinks AA is paying a whole lot more to rent a terminal that is being used well below its potential than DL ever paid for the hangar in Dallas.

And in return, I am sure DL is paying a lot more to lease from AA rather than have their own gates at DAL. Think before you post, hello...

 

[cltrat]

Really?  Where did you get this?  LOL...

you got a lot of damn balls to come in here and say something anti Delta j/k

 

[swamt]

Swamt,

I'm not asking this in a contentious way but I'm curious what actually makes the difference between a low cost, new entrant, or a legacy carrier. I'm pretty sure SW is not a new entrant unless new entrants don't become legacy carriers until the've been in business for 50 years. I'm really not sure that SW fares are that much lower to make them a "low cost carrier". Does the DOT have a definition for the types of carriers or is it wall street, or perhaps just plain public perception or a lack therof?

All the best,

Bob

SW is not a new entrant.  SW is still a LCC. SW will very well become a legacy carrier once they achieve true international service.  Is SW the cheapest airline when searching online?  Not when only searching for airline ticket prices.  But when you add the "all in rate" which includes tickets, bags, transfers, upgrades and any other fees they have, SW will come out the cheapest over all.  When you add up all the cost to fly your family and their bags to their destination then yes SW will be cheaper than all the legacies.  There are times when the legacies will come out cheaper, but it is very rare, and only when the legacies are running discounts and specials until SW has time to counter.  Fair question Bob...

 

[swamt]

see, you have parroted the company line since the merger was announced and they reiterated again at the announcement of the settlement.

We have divided up the industry the way we want and we aren't about to let any other legacy airline enjoy the spoils which we have to give up.

Problem is what AA and US said and what the DOJ officials said to the magazines about excluding DL and UA from the bidding process is illegal.

Why don't you check US law and let us know where it is allowed for the DOJ to decide how to allocate assets in the USA based solely on an economic basis? You can call a lifeline and you will probably need one because it isn't allowed.

That's why DL is filing the case.
 

Bob,
he has gotten real quite all of a sudden because there is no legal basis for the DOJ to carve up the industry in categories which involve picking winners and losers and/or locking some players out of certain assets.
With 11% of the market share at DCA and the current use of 1 gate at Love Field, DL is a small player in both markets and is just as legally qualified to be the solution to the AA/US market concentration problem as is B6 or V

The real crime is that someone at the DOJ was dumb enough to honestly believe that WN should be allowed to even bid on anything at DAL, an airport where they already control at least 80% of the gates and have over 95% of the current boardings.

WN is scrambling tonite, Bob.

They have taunted AA back and forth for years and thought they had the "gotcha" this time. Funny thing is that WN might have been got.

Quiet for awhile?  C'mon.  Some of us work for a living.  Trust me SW has not been got, LOL,  your funny...

 

[WorldTraveler]

And in return, I am sure DL is paying a lot more to lease from AA rather than have their own gates at DAL. Think before you post, hello...

 but you don't know that, do you?

And it still doesn't change that Love Field can't create higher lease rates for DL than it can for other tenants including WN.
DL wants to and will be flying from DAL just as it does from MDW and other airports which WN serves but which other legacy airlines choose not to serve.
 

Really?  Where did you get this?  LOL...

 
While you were parroting Gary Kelly's company line about WN's intentions to grow DAL, I was actually thinking. If you and others don't grasp that DL is going to push the question of access to the divested assets including the DAL gates to the highest levels of US government and challenge the cozy relationship that has existed in N. Texas between AA and WN and which they both thought they could get the DOJ to embrace, then you are in for a surprise.

DL will get what it wants or it will open a can of worms larger than you could use in a lifetime of fishing.
 

SW is not a new entrant.  SW is still a LCC. SW will very well become a legacy carrier once they achieve true international service.  Is SW the cheapest airline when searching online?  Not when only searching for airline ticket prices.  But when you add the "all in rate" which includes tickets, bags, transfers, upgrades and any other fees they have, SW will come out the cheapest over all.  When you add up all the cost to fly your family and their bags to their destination then yes SW will be cheaper than all the legacies.  There are times when the legacies will come out cheaper, but it is very rare, and only when the legacies are running discounts and specials until SW has time to counter.  Fair question Bob...

except WN is not an LCC, unless DL is also because WN's costs are almost identical to DL's. DL has had lower CASMs than WN.

WN's average fares are higher than network carriers in many markets, including in many markets from the Metroplex to cities including Houston.

DO you really think DL is going to let WN argue that WN needs more gates so that WN can gouge the consumers of Texas more than what they have endured with AA?

And DL is certainly going to make very certain that the laws of the US which prohibit government from regulating fares and limiting access to facilities or national aviation assets based on economic factors are enforced.

If you don't grasp what is happening, then you are in over your head in this discussion.

 

[nevergiveup]

 but you don't know that, do you?

And it still doesn't change that Love Field can't create higher lease rates for DL than it can for other tenants including WN.
DL wants to and will be flying from DAL just as it does from MDW and other airports which WN serves but which other legacy airlines choose not to serve.
 
 
While you were parroting Gary Kelly's company line about WN's intentions to grow DAL, I was actually thinking. If you and others don't grasp that DL is going to push the question of access to the divested assets including the DAL gates to the highest levels of US government and challenge the cozy relationship that has existed in N. Texas between AA and WN and which they both thought they could get the DOJ to embrace, then you are in for a surprise.

DL will get what it wants or it will open a can of worms larger than you could use in a lifetime of fishing.
 
except WN is not an LCC, unless DL is also because WN's costs are almost identical to DL's. DL has had lower CASMs than WN.

WN's average fares are higher than network carriers in many markets, including in many markets from the Metroplex to cities including Houston.

DO you really think DL is going to let WN argue that WN needs more gates so that WN can gouge the consumers of Texas more than what they have endured with AA?

And DL is certainly going to make very certain that the laws of the US which prohibit government from regulating fares and limiting access to facilities or national aviation assets based on economic factors are enforced.

If you don't grasp what is happening, then you are in over your head in this discussion.

I am Nomad!

 

[WorldTraveler]

is that a response to my post?

congratulations for being so self-aware.

 

[nevergiveup]

is that a response to my post?

congratulations for being so self-aware.

Youth, what a blessing!

 

[swamt]

 but you don't know that, do you?

And it still doesn't change that Love Field can't create higher lease rates for DL than it can for other tenants including WN.
DL wants to and will be flying from DAL just as it does from MDW and other airports which WN serves but which other legacy airlines choose not to serve.
 
 
While you were parroting Gary Kelly's company line about WN's intentions to grow DAL, I was actually thinking. If you and others don't grasp that DL is going to push the question of access to the divested assets including the DAL gates to the highest levels of US government and challenge the cozy relationship that has existed in N. Texas between AA and WN and which they both thought they could get the DOJ to embrace, then you are in for a surprise.

DL will get what it wants or it will open a can of worms larger than you could use in a lifetime of fishing.
 
except WN is not an LCC, unless DL is also because WN's costs are almost identical to DL's. DL has had lower CASMs than WN.

WN's average fares are higher than network carriers in many markets, including in many markets from the Metroplex to cities including Houston.

DO you really think DL is going to let WN argue that WN needs more gates so that WN can gouge the consumers of Texas more than what they have endured with AA?

And DL is certainly going to make very certain that the laws of the US which prohibit government from regulating fares and limiting access to facilities or national aviation assets based on economic factors are enforced.

If you don't grasp what is happening, then you are in over your head in this discussion.

Grasp the discussion?  I'm not the one that fell off my rocker.  I'm not the one crying because poor little DL may not get any slots.  Now you don't hear UA publically crying about it do you? 

 

[Reed Richards]

[SIZE=14pt]I hope Delta continues to succeed, in fact excel.   It’s all about the profit pie now, and Delta just proved they can extract over 1B in one quarter.  No wonder they gave their pilots a raise in exchange for some or all of their future profits.  Smart move.  Parker did the same thing with the NEW AMR pilots, and still has a 30-40K advantage per year, per pilot over the Delta pilots, for another 2 years.  I no longer fear for the life of my airline, the threat of new entrants is finally past, and the fight will be over the pie, not over putting your mega competitor out of business.   In fact,  I especially wish Delta success over the next couple of years, so much that they give their pilots yet another raise!  Bring it on![/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=14pt]Currently eating some the best crow I have ever eaten, missing the call on the merger.  My opinion was DOA when Holder caved, no longer going after Advantage fares, 1000 city pairs, or the bad business practices of Doug Parker.  It came down to a few slots, the exact thing the DOJ said its complaint was NOT about.  Huge win for Doug and his team.   Almost a complete win in my opinion.  Sad the small cities will suffer out of DCA, but screw them!  (that is tongue in cheek, but exactly what Holder just did to them all, eventually.)  RR[/SIZE]

 

[WorldTraveler]

Reed,
thank you for demonstrating maturity by admitting that you were wrong. You are absolutely to be commended for demonstrating character.

I absolutely hope you and other US employees do succeed. If DL employee compensation can help bring up the compensation of AA/US employees, that would just be great!

Airline employees have borne an incredible burden over the past decade and it is sad that many airlines and unions have been unable or unwilling to recognize the value that their employees bring by working tirelessly to raise their compensation. I am glad that DL serves as an example of hefty profit sharing and repeated pay raises and hope that model can be replicated at AA/US.

It is indeed sad that the small and medium size cities in the US will be pay the price to allow the supposed low fare and low cost carriers greater access to DCA and LGA.

I am certain that if the settlement agreement proceeds as the DOJ announced, there will be a realization that access to DCA has been sold to protect the interests of a few very profitable airlines. As you and I know, those airlines are not interested in building a national airline system like the legacy airlines have built since their route systems don't serve hundreds of small and medium sized cities around the country.

As you and I also know, the horizon we can often see today does not necessarily result in the justice that is ultimately necessary and which ultimately will prevail.

I hope you can keep that final perspective in mind as you process all that takes place.

May you excel in all you do... both today and in every tomorrow.

peace,
WT