Gunning for the Vatican

[Garfield1966]

Going to the top

The Wisconsin documents tie Benedict, who as cardinal led the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, to the decision in the mid-1990s not to defrock the Rev. Lawrence Murphy despite allegations that the Milwaukee priest molested some 200 deaf boys from 1950 to 1975.

The Vatican is defending that decision, saying the case reached the Vatican only in 1996, two years before Murphy died. Church officials also say Murphy had repented in a letter to Ratzinger, and that the case's statute of limitations had run out. They decry criticism over the case as an effort to smear the pope.

The Milwaukee lawsuit does not name Pope Benedict or other Vatican leaders as defendants, but Anderson hopes to use it to bolster a separate lawsuit filed eight years ago in U.S. District Court in Oregon.

In that case, an unidentified plaintiff claims he was sexually abused as a teenager in 1965 or 1966 by the Rev. Andrew Ronan at St. Albert's Church in Portland, Ore. According to court documents, Ronan was accused of abusing boys in the mid-1950s as a priest in the Archdiocese of Armagh, Ireland. He was transferred to Chicago, where he admitted abusing three boys at St. Philip's High School, and after that was sent to Oregon.

It does not sound like he will win the case but I think he will definitely bring them down a notch or two and with any luck the Vatican will straighten their own house out before they try and tell others what morality is or isn't. I think it is right a little hypocritical to be telling other what morality is when you are hiding and protecting pedophiles

 

[SparrowHawk]

Going to the top




It does not sound like he will win the case but I think he will definitely bring them down a notch or two and with any luck the Vatican will straighten their own house out before they try and tell others what morality is or isn't. I think it is right a little hypocritical to be telling other what morality is when you are hiding and protecting pedophiles

This kind of stuff is what has generally "Cured Me" of organized religion but not faith. If you really take a look in the bible and get one of those where Jesus's word are printed in red and read only The red portions you'll find a man who has far less concerned about sin than he was about hypocrisy.

Hiding behind the basic Christian tenet of Forgiveness to prevent the church from being embarrassed or involved in yet another lawsuit stretches the credibility of the those involved to the breaking point. For me I'm reminded of the WWJD (What Would Jesus Do) wrist bands and stickers. My answer to that question is that if Jesus walked among us today, the Pope and a gret many other in church hierarchy would find themselve joining the money lenders on the outside looking in.

 

[airbud]

More anti-religious threads from devout atheists? Oh Joy! Color me outraged (not). Wheres the outrage amongst the Muslims for the long held tradition of honor killings and arranged marriages of little girls to older men only to be raped? Wheres the outrage in the House bill that passed back in November that mandated that our taxes go toward treating “perpetrators of child sexual abuse who are Indian or members of an Indian household.” (It’s on page 1950, section 713) link

 

[SparrowHawk]

More anti-religious threads from devout atheists? Oh Joy! Color me outraged (not). Wheres the outrage amongst the Muslims for the long held tradition of honor killings and arranged marriages of little girls to older men only to be raped? Wheres the outrage in the House bill that passed back in November that mandated that our taxes go toward treating “perpetrators of child sexual abuse who are Indian or members of an Indian household.” (It’s on page 1950, section 713) link

As a Christian I EXPECT my spiritual leaders to be above reproach. If someone like a Priest violates the law and is convicted then I expect the hierarchy to react in appropriate manner. Not a shell game of find the pervert Priest. God may forgive him but I don't have too,

One of the reasons I rejct the Church is due to this very type of conduct at the top. If we are a Christian nation then we should not be surprised by the amoral leaders we have because many of them grew up in an equally amoral church that at best tacitly approved Pedophile Priests. Turning a blind eye to the wrongdoing is at least passively condoning it.

 

[Garfield1966]

This seems more like a CEO or senior exec protecting the company. No company (Religion) wants a scandal. A scandal is bad for business (believers). Law suits are bad for business. They cost lots of money (believers) and in the Catholics, actual money. Now the scandal is reaching up to the very top of the hierarchy.

I do not see how the Vatican can come out on the good side of this. The pope whether he had a direct hand in it or not is going to be linked to it. I think if they were to have a major house cleaning and ask for legal prosecution of all offenders they might be able to regain their stature.

The church messed with one of the 3 thing I have heard you don't mes with. Elderly, children and animals. Messing with kids is in my opinion the worst of the worst. They are innocent. They do not know how to cry out for help if they are threatened. They will have to live with the abuse for the rest of their lives and the Vatican hid and protected the abusers. Not just one or two but a massive number of abusers and the number of abused is staggering.

Power corrupts. Church or business make no difference.

 

[SparrowHawk]

This seems more like a CEO or senior exec protecting the company. No company (Religion) wants a scandal. A scandal is bad for business (believers). Law suits are bad for business. They cost lots of money (believers) and in the Catholics, actual money. Now the scandal is reaching up to the very top of the hierarchy.

I do not see how the Vatican can come out on the good side of this. The pope whether he had a direct hand in it or not is going to be linked to it. I think if they were to have a major house cleaning and ask for legal prosecution of all offenders they might be able to regain their stature.

The church messed with one of the 3 thing I have heard you don't mes with. Elderly, children and animals. Messing with kids is in my opinion the worst of the worst. They are innocent. They do not know how to cry out for help if they are threatened. They will have to live with the abuse for the rest of their lives and the Vatican hid and protected the abusers. Not just one or two but a massive number of abusers and the number of abused is staggering.

Power corrupts. Church or business make no difference.

Excellent post and you have no idea how right you are.

I was on the Board of Trustees of my community Baptist Church in my 20's and if you think religion isn't a business you'd best think again. The church drove me away. Away from them but not away for God. God and I get along pretty good.

Don't need no stinikn'' Pedophile Priests

 

[Garfield1966]

I have never understood the need for organized religion. Even when I did go to temple, it always struck me as odd that it was just one day a week. And why on earth did I have to get dressed up and go somewhere to pray? If god were truly everywhere, I could pray or contemplate where ever and when ever I chose. While in bed, working in the yard, in class, or discuss among friends. After a while I just lost faith altogether and I have been fine without it.

A few friends and I were discussing this the other night and the issue of non-profit came up. They are supposed to be a charity organization and the money that they take in presumably should not be used for other than operate the church and it's charitable functions. If that is the case, where did the money come from that was won in the law suits? I would like to see the laws changed that require any non-profit organization separate their donations. People can donate money for charity work or they can donate money that is not tax free for the church or patron that can be used for operational/defense purposes. The idea that tax free money was used to pay off the victims of criminal behavior by the church is abhorrent in my opinion.

The tax laws need to be re-written. There are several .com churches around my area. The size of these places is massive. They are quite fancy and over built. The amount of money to build and run these places is staggering. They do not strike me as non-profit and should not benefit from those organizations that truly are there to help.

The more I read and learn about the the Vatican, the more I hope the Catholic church gets shut down. Protecting pedophiles alone should garner much more out rage than is present.

 

[airbud]

The more I read and learn about the the Vatican, the more I hope the Catholic church gets shut down.

Keeping on wishing, the catholic church have survived much worse of times. Plus nobody has the authority.

The church messed with one of the 3 thing I have heard you don't mes with. Elderly, children and animals.

Unless of course its the liberal/progressive government implementing their liberal/progressive Utopia, then its ok to mess with the elderly and children. Right?

 

[SparrowHawk]

Keeping on wishing, the catholic church have survived much worse of times. Plus nobody has the authority.


Unless of course its the liberal/progressive government implementing their liberal/progressive Utopia, then its ok to mess with the elderly and children. Right?

You know call me old fashioned but the way I read the story, one could argue that Pope Benedict could be guilty of obstruction of justice.

This has NOTHING to do with Liberal/Conservative, it has to do with right or wrong. Attempting to interject politics into this at best an act of desparation. Remember you're reading this post from a guy who is a pretty devout Christian and I'd argue that NO ONE on this board is more sensitive and aggressive on Christian Bashing than I am.

These freakin' guys need to be tried and if appropriate brought to justice. Mere profession of adhearance to divine principles doesn't absolve you from your sins here on earth. I've less than no sympathy for the Holy Roman Catholic Church as they gave IMO tacit approval to this type of behavior by turning a blind eye to the actions of a significant portion of their priests. As a result the Catholic Church has no credibility with me. NONE, ZERO, ZIP, NADA, ZILCH! If they would like to know why I suggest they need merely look in the mirror.

 

[airbud]

You know call me old fashioned but the way I read the story, one could argue that Pope Benedict could be guilty of obstruction of justice.

This has NOTHING to do with Liberal/Conservative, it has to do with right or wrong. Attempting to interject politics into this at best an act of desparation. Remember you're reading this post from a guy who is a pretty devout Christian and I'd argue that NO ONE on this board is more sensitive and aggressive on Christian Bashing than I am.

These freakin' guys need to be tried and if appropriate brought to justice. Mere profession of adhearance to divine principles doesn't absolve you from your sins here on earth. I've less than no sympathy for the Holy Roman Catholic Church as they gave IMO tacit approval to this type of behavior by turning a blind eye to the actions of a significant portion of their priests. As a result the Catholic Church has no credibility with me. NONE, ZERO, ZIP, NADA, ZILCH! If they would like to know why I suggest they need merely look in the mirror.

Whatever floats your boat, i wasn't talking to you anyways.

 

[Garfield1966]

You know call me old fashioned but the way I read the story, one could argue that Pope Benedict could be guilty of obstruction of justice.

This has NOTHING to do with Liberal/Conservative, it has to do with right or wrong. Attempting to interject politics into this at best an act of desparation. Remember you're reading this post from a guy who is a pretty devout Christian and I'd argue that NO ONE on this board is more sensitive and aggressive on Christian Bashing than I am.

These freakin' guys need to be tried and if appropriate brought to justice. Mere profession of adhearance to divine principles doesn't absolve you from your sins here on earth. I've less than no sympathy for the Holy Roman Catholic Church as they gave IMO tacit approval to this type of behavior by turning a blind eye to the actions of a significant portion of their priests. As a result the Catholic Church has no credibility with me. NONE, ZERO, ZIP, NADA, ZILCH! If they would like to know why I suggest they need merely look in the mirror.

What concerns me is that from most accounts, they do quite a bit of good in o far as charity is concerned. The feed quite a few of the hungry and do quite a bit of good.

Sounds to me like a corporation that got so big that cannot keep control over it. Communication and technology has changed things. You cannot get away with things that you could 15 or 20 years ago. People from all over the world can meet on line and talk real time. The church, politicians and others cannot hide as easily as they once could. As more and more people come forward with their stories of abuse, the church is going to suffer quite a bit.

Financially they are in huge trouble. There are several archdiocese that are either bankrupt or on the verge. While the religion will not disappear, at least not any time soon, I think that organized religion may dwindle while people take their faith back and make it private. Personally I think that is a good thing. All these .com churches are in it for the money as far as I am concerned. I don't feel like looking up the name but there is that one couple who is under investigation who has a huge mansion, a Gulf V and who knows what else. Does not sound like a non-profit or servant of god to me. Sounds like a politician.

If they keep up with their antics, all it would take s a stroke of the pen to sign a bill passed by Congress voiding ot at least severely changing the requirements of a tax exempt religious status. If that happens you could kiss a lot of these churches good bye.

 

[Garfield1966]

Seems that Ratzinger was involved quite a bit in this cover up.

AZ priest incident

Documents reviewed by The Associated Press show that in the 1990s, a church tribunal found that the Rev. Michael Teta of Tucson, Ariz., had molested children as far back as the late 1970s. The panel deemed his behavior — including allegations that he abused boys in a confessional — almost "satanic." The tribunal referred his case to then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who would become pope in 2005.

But it took 12 years from the time Ratzinger assumed control of the case in a signed letter until Teta was formally removed from ministry, a step only the Vatican can take.

The lack of out cry and the lack of prosecution is dumb founding. Were any of us accused of these crimes we would be facing a trial, probable conviction and upon release from jail, labeled as a sex offender. The lack of any meaning full prosecution shows how much power the Catholic corporation has in the US.

Perhaps the concerns about JFK were not all that unjustified after all. It does make one wonder.

 

[freedom]

Seems that Ratzinger was involved quite a bit in this cover up.

AZ priest incident




The lack of out cry and the lack of prosecution is dumb founding. Were any of us accused of these crimes we would be facing a trial, probable conviction and upon release from jail, labeled as a sex offender. The lack of any meaning full prosecution shows how much power the Catholic corporation has in the US.

Perhaps the concerns about JFK were not all that unjustified after all. It does make one wonder.

stop slamming my relgion before you even look at the facts ...

1 . in many cases the statue of limitations has run out ...hence no proscutions ..

2. the current pope has done more to speed up the process in which the church goes after molestors than anyone else before him ....

yada yada yada , i'm not going to give you links , google search it ..

 

[SparrowHawk]

stop slamming my relgion before you even look at the facts ...

1 . in many cases the statue of limitations has run out ...hence no proscutions ..

2. the current pope has done more to speed up the process in which the church goes after molestors than anyone else before him ....

yada yada yada , i'm not going to give you links , google search it ..

Just a small point.

YOUR Religion shamed itself! No one helped them do that.

1, The statute of limitations running out does not make the victim unmolested. It just puts the Priest out on danger of incarceration.

2. The current Pope is acting because the church can't afford the bad PR or continue to pay damage claims. Personally I don't think he cares one wit about the victims.

Funny how in the end it all comes down to money.

 

[freedom]

Just a small point.

YOUR Religion shamed itself! No one helped them do that.

1, The statute of limitations running out does not make the victim unmolested. It just puts the Priest out on danger of incarceration.

2. The current Pope is acting because the church can't afford the bad PR or continue to pay damage claims. Personally I don't think he cares one wit about the victims.

Funny how in the end it all comes down to money.

sorry not following you how my religion has shamed itself ... the actions of a few men do not consitiue the entire church ...

in closing i urge all of you to strongly consider becoming catholics ... as that all other relgions and denominations are false ...