Have some questions about United bankruptcy from a current AA mechanic.

[AA Tulsa Mechanic]

First off hello, I am an aircraft mechanic with American Airlines at the overhaul base in Tulsa Oklahoma. I have 20 years in now and am for obvious reasons worried about what will happen during the bankruptcy as I have never been through one before.

I have looked high and low on the internet for answers specifically what happened to United aircraft mechanics during and after the bankruptcy. I hope some of you can help.

How many mechanics lost their jobs and did not return?

How much of a pay cut did you take?

Did you lose your pension?

What happened with your medical benefits?

What kind of work rule changes were implemented?

I really appreciate if anyone can help answer some of my questions.

Thank you.

 

[xUT]

First off hello, I am an aircraft mechanic with American Airlines at the overhaul base in Tulsa Oklahoma. I have 20 years in now and am for obvious reasons worried about what will happen during the bankruptcy as I have never been through one before.

I have looked high and low on the internet for answers specifically what happened to United aircraft mechanics during and after the bankruptcy. I hope some of you can help.

How many mechanics lost their jobs and did not return?

How much of a pay cut did you take?

Did you lose your pension?

What happened with your medical benefits?

What kind of work rule changes were implemented?

I really appreciate if anyone can help answer some of my questions.

Thank you.

Hi Tulsa Mech,
Sorry to hear about the BK.
It's not going to be easy, especially for overhaul.
I don't remember the specifics as it was long ago and I left UA in 2008.
IIRC
Da'Judge imposed an immediate (temporary) pay cut which was mitigated during S1113 negotiations a couple of months later.
All HMV was outsourced.
If you are an OH AMT, get ready to bounce around the system and hopefully land somewhere that you can live with.
Back shops were decimated and most was outsourced.
Pension was given to the PBGC and I lost about $400 a month due to the 5 year look-back clause (which you shouldn't worry about).
Increase in medical, dental and big change in sick day implementation.
Plus loosing our ESOP stock.
I have it all archived in a CD but too lazy to research it all.
As for the rest, I only remember it was ugly. Hopefully, someone else can fill in the gaps.

The 'folks' that told you that you would be better off in BK lied to you.

I believe USAir fared about the same, 700 probably could answer better than I.

There is no 'cookie cutter' in BK reorganization so keep your chin up!


JMHO,
B) xUT

 

[FWAAA]

At 12/31/01, UA had 13,105 mechanic and related on the payroll. Nine years later, on 12/31/10, UA's M&R ranks had fallen to just 4,728. That's nearly 8,400 jobs gone.

The Indianapolis facility was closed and 3,000 personnel were laid off. The Oakland facility was closed, costing another 700 jobs. More jobs were lost at the SFO overhaul facility and mechanics lost jobs all over the country as maintenance was outsourced.

During bankruptcy, UA obtained two rounds of concessions, greater than the concessions AA obtained in 2003. UA's mechanics were already poorly paid as a result of the ESOP concessions from the mid-1990s when the mechanics agreed to concessions and pay freezes in exchange for partial ownership of UAL (along with pilots).

 

[tech2101]

First off hello, I am an aircraft mechanic with American Airlines at the overhaul base in Tulsa Oklahoma. I have 20 years in now and am for obvious reasons worried about what will happen during the bankruptcy as I have never been through one before.

I have looked high and low on the internet for answers specifically what happened to United aircraft mechanics during and after the bankruptcy. I hope some of you can help.

How many mechanics lost their jobs and did not return?

How much of a pay cut did you take?

Did you lose your pension?

What happened with your medical benefits?

What kind of work rule changes were implemented?

I really appreciate if anyone can help answer some of my questions.

Thank you.

As an AMT that was facing the same thing as you are now in, the advice I offer is go back to school now and get your degree. If you are a veteran, look to the government and see if there are any programs and benefits offered to you for your service.

Network heavily. If you are in Tulsa, look at the other opportunities in your area. Be flexible.

If you plan on staying with AA, start honing your line maintenance skills now. Maybe even consider bidding to a line job now. As I saw the writing on the wall, I went from hangar to line immediately. That saved my butt for many years, along with my ability to move.

I now work for a very stable operation thanks to my college degree and networking. I got a jump on it. I knew the NWA was going to do us in so I took the lemons and made lemonade. Many of my colleagues are also better off now.

Keep your head up. There is life outside of the airline microcosm.

 

[xUT]

At 12/31/01, UA had 13,105 mechanic and related on the payroll. Nine years later, on 12/31/10, UA's M&R ranks had fallen to just 4,728. That's nearly 8,400 jobs gone.

The Indianapolis facility was closed and 3,000 personnel were laid off. The Oakland facility was closed, costing another 700 jobs. More jobs were lost at the SFO overhaul facility and mechanics lost jobs all over the country as maintenance was outsourced.

During bankruptcy, UA obtained two rounds of concessions, greater than the concessions AA obtained in 2003. UA's mechanics were already poorly paid as a result of the ESOP concessions from the mid-1990s when the mechanics agreed to concessions and pay freezes in exchange for partial ownership of UAL (along with pilots).

That sounds pretty close. Pilots and Management had most of the ESOP and about 20% was divided up with IAM (M&R, and Ramp/Stores).
IIRC, at the height of the ESOP UAL had about 100,000 employees, when I left in 2008 we had about 60,000.
There was not a single work group that was not affected (except for the BOD and Executive Class, somehow we still needed 75 SRVP's).
Technical Publications group disappeared. Engineering was cut to about 25-30% of it's original size. IT department halved. SFO Back shops looks like a ghost town.
B) xUT

 

[Harvey]

First off hello, I am an aircraft mechanic with American Airlines at the overhaul base in Tulsa Oklahoma. I have 20 years in now and am for obvious reasons worried about what will happen during the bankruptcy as I have never been through one before.

I have looked high and low on the internet for answers specifically what happened to United aircraft mechanics during and after the bankruptcy. I hope some of you can help.

How many mechanics lost their jobs and did not return?

How much of a pay cut did you take?

Did you lose your pension?

What happened with your medical benefits?

What kind of work rule changes were implemented?

I really appreciate if anyone can help answer some of my questions.

Thank you.

Just about the pensions the guy who said he only lost about $400.00 a month that might be true for someone that was about to retire with 30 years or longer. Someone with around 20 years the pension frooze so your multiplyer also frooze you didn't reach max so if you were hoping for $3000.00 - $4000.00 a month you lost about two thirds of it and will get around $1200.00 a month... AA numbers will depend on your multiplyers and max out

 

[AA Tulsa Mechanic]

Thanks guys, I appreciate it. Sounds like uncertain scary times ahead.

 

[2ndGENAMT]

Thanks guys, I appreciate it. Sounds like uncertain scary times ahead.

AA Tulsa Mechanic
If you have not looked at your pension statement get on Jetnet go to Benefits and under Planning click Retirement and scroll down to Pension-Defined Benefit and click on My Pension Statement...

That page will give you your credited service and your Annual Accrued Benefit which is what you will receive regardless if our plan is Frozen or Terminated as I am sure you are below the maximum that PBGC guarantees..

This statement is dated 12/31/10 so it will be slightly more as you will have accrued until AMR filed for BK...

 

[Buck]

Run the Pension Calculator using 12/01/2011 in the first date box and the date when you will attain age 60 in the second. Make a copy and put it away. Assuming that the full retiement is accepted atage 60, as it was at bankruptcy filing. I have recently seen some statements indicatingthis in the American threads. BTW I am a Tulsa AMT in OH.

 

[xUT]

First off hello, I am an aircraft mechanic with American Airlines at the overhaul base in Tulsa Oklahoma. I have 20 years in now and am for obvious reasons worried about what will happen during the bankruptcy as I have never been through one before.

I have looked high and low on the internet for answers specifically what happened to United aircraft mechanics during and after the bankruptcy. I hope some of you can help.

How many mechanics lost their jobs and did not return?

How much of a pay cut did you take?

Did you lose your pension?

What happened with your medical benefits?

What kind of work rule changes were implemented?

I really appreciate if anyone can help answer some of my questions.

Thank you.

Just about the pensions the guy who said he only lost about $400.00 a month that might be true for someone that was about to retire with 30 years or longer. Someone with around 20 years the pension frooze so your multiplyer also frooze you didn't reach max so if you were hoping for $3000.00 - $4000.00 a month you lost about two thirds of it and will get around $1200.00 a month... AA numbers will depend on your multiplyers and max out

Sorry Harvey, but you are wrong. I get a little over $1K a month.
I retired at 55 years old so get a huge penalty from the 65 max (My Choice).
My DOH was 10/1985, PBGC took pensions on March 11, 2005.
That gave me less than 19 years retirement eligibility (first year doesn't count).
At plan termination, we had the recent PEB contract that increased retirement but because of the 5 look back clause, I lost about $400 a month.

UAL had 'other optional plans' (Such as income leveling to SS age, etc...) that were recognized by the PBGC "IF" taken prior to termination (still subject to the look back clause). Otherwise, plans defaulted to the 'Book Rate'.
I have no idea where you get your disinformation.
B) xUT

 

[xUT]

Run the Pension Calculator using 12/01/2011 in the first date box and the date when you will attain age 60 in the second. Make a copy and put it away. Assuming that the full retiement is accepted atage 60, as it was at bankruptcy filing. I have recently seen some statements indicatingthis in the American threads. BTW I am a Tulsa AMT in OH.

BK filing has nothing to do with plan termination (other than being the 'tool') the day the PBGC 'accepts' plan determination is the drop dead date (no pun intended).
JMHO,
B) xUT

 

[xUT]

(December 15, 2007 ) PBGC Pension Termination: A Worker's Perspective by Terry O'Rourke, United airlines

Excerpt:

United Airlines (UAL) and the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC) made a dirty deal to eliminate our company pensions and replace them with anemic PBGC pensions. The co-conspirators agreed to a pension termination that served them well but dealt a devastating blow to UAL employees. We learned about the self-serving deal from an April 22, 2005 press release issued by the PBGC and the media coverage the press release generated.

The agreement would be confirmed by the bankruptcy court less than one month later, on May 10, 2005.

The PBGC/UAL pension termination agreement provides a clear example of the corporate-run government's attack on workers taking place in this country. The PBGC minimized the damage to its coffers by trading its rights for UAL's money at the expense of the very constituents it claims to serve.

The agency, led by Bush appointees, sided with corporate interests over working people. UAL cut $10 billion of debt off its balance sheet for pennies on the dollar. The courts then completely cooperated, awarding UAL the necessary rulings in bankruptcy and denying all worker legal attempts to mitigate its damages. What options are left to workers?

As a UAL employee and an editor of a mechanics' union publication (Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association Local
9 WayPoints, online at www.amfa9.org/waypoints), I followed and wrote about this story as it happened. This article looks at a pension termination from ground level, from a worker's point of view, and draws some lessons that we've learned from our experiences.

Please read the rest of the article.
B) xUT

 

[xUT]

BK filing has nothing to do with plan termination (other than being the 'tool') the day the PBGC 'accepts' plan determination is the drop dead date (no pun intended).
JMHO,
B) xUT

I stand corrected:

http://www.pbgc.gov/wr/benefits/guaranteed-benefits.html

If the plan terminated while your employer was in a bankruptcy proceeding that began on or after September 16, 2006, guarantees are determined as of the date your employer’s bankruptcy proceeding began.

B) xUT

 

[topDawg]

Not United but here is some info on Delta.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/stories/2005/03/28/daily4.html?page=all