Here, Hear...

jimntx said:
Programmer was the "entry level" position for professional staff in the Information Technology Department/Computer Services Department/whatever they were calling my department that year.  Hell, I was even lower.  I started as a Programmer Trainee.  The progression was something like Programmer, Sr. Programmer, Programming/Systems Analyst, Sr. Systems Analyst, Systems Consultant, etc.  She never made it above Sr. Programmer as far as I know because most people didn't know what the hell she was talking or writing about most of the time.  She was from East Texas and prided herself on not knowing much of anything other than how to program computers.  So, she got to program computers for her entire career at Texaco.  She was very well paid, but it was still an entry level position in our department.
 
And, yes by the definition of entry level in most industries--starting job, HS diploma or GED, no previous experience/training required, lower wage.  Yes, flight attendant is an entry level job.  A flight attendant doesn't have to know a thing about the airline business.  It helps, but it ain't required.  And, since from a practical standpoint most flight attendants never progress beyond that, a flight attendant with 40 years experience is doing the same job on a daily basis as a flight attendant with 40 days experience.  The 40 year flight attendant may be better at it (not all of them) but that comes with experience not additional training, etc.  And, if you can be replaced by another person with minimal training--as far as meeting Federal requirements--you are doing an entry level job.  I happen to like mine just fine, and I'm very good at it.
 
 
eolesen said:
Back in the day, programmers *were* an entry level position, learned on the job and not at a school.

Some companies still take that ab initio approach, thinking it's better to train someone from scratch than it is to discover someone's pre-existing bad habits after they're on payroll.

Some of my best programmers were guys hired with no formal training. Technically speaking, I've only had 10 days of training as a programmer, even though I worked as one for almost ten years.

It's simple - if you can't communicate effectively, you'll never be promoted.
I am curious why you left IT. It has provided me some good opportunities. 
 
Do you think we can keep this thread on topic?

La Li Lu Le Lo ti da was allowed to vent in his first post.

How about you (fa la li) pm eolesen about that?

Dint yall get the gist and vibe of the rant yo?
 
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Glenn Quagmire said:
Do you think we can keep this thread on topic?

La Li Lu Le Lo ti da was allowed to vent in his first post.

How about you (fa la li) pm eolesen about that?

Dint yall get the gist and vibe of the rant yo?
I was allowed? You really are full of yourself.