High risk uninsured....hope you last 6 months

[KCFlyer]

There is 1 "U" KC, please spin again or would you like to solve the puzzle?

How about we put the alien issue aside for a moment. Who do you think pays for all the US citizens who do not have health insurance? Hell, who do you think pays for out rages deductibles that have to paid after the fact like the $2,000 I am not going to pay? They had me fork over $1250 up front to pay for the surgery and a few month later they decide they were off on their calculations and want $2k more. Yea, that will happen right after I sprout wings and fly (go ahead Dell, find a picture of a cat with wings..... I know you can do it.)

Bottom line is our health system is broken. It has been broken for decades. There are a lot of people making a lot of money at our expense. People are being denied care by hospitals and by insurance companies. Drug companies are making a fortune. Lawyers are making a fortune. Hospitals are making a fortune. Mean while a simple hernia operation runs over $15,000 and that is for someone who has insurance. For someone uninsured it is probably closer to $20k or $30k. So someone who is uninsured has to who it does not get worse and kill him or go into debt to save his life. Some choice.

You're right that our health care system is broken. But the only attempt to "reign in costs" is "tort reform".

 

[Garfield1966]

out rages???? :blink:

Our health system has been broke for decades? Hmm, I don't recall my parents paying thousands of dollars when my Dad had open heart surgery and an aortic aneurysm? I believe it cost somewhere around $100,000 or more and that was in '91.

Did they have insurance? What if he had been laid off or lost his job? My brother in law just had open heart. Dbl by pass and valve replacement. First time did not take so they had to crack him open a 2nd time 3 months later. Total cost was over $1 million USD. The sister of my sister in law had triplets. They were premies(sp?). One was born with mush inside. They took him to surgery but were unable to save him. The other two were in neonatal ICU for 2 or 3 months and regular doctor visits for the next year. Cost on that.... Also over $1 million USD.

Someone explain to me why any hospital care should cost that much? Yea I know about the technology involved but that is not what I am talking about. How is anyone who does not have health insurance supposed to pay for that? How is someone who cannot afford health insurance supposed to pay for a million dollar procedure? There seem to be three choices now. Pay for Insurance which still may cost you an arm and a leg. Don't pay for insurance and then you can either not get the care you need and die or get the care and stick someone else with the bill.

Would it not be better if everyone paid x% of their pay check into a health payment pool and you are covered. Hang nail or heart attack you are good. Too say that the current system is not broken is in my opinion a very ignorant statement.

 

[777 fixer]

This is my first foray into the whole health care "debate". I say "debate" because a lot of time it turns into a shouting match. And when people are shouting at each other honest discussion goes out the window.

My thoughts are this. To say that we have the best system in the world and should be left as is seems to be incredibly naive. If that were true everyone would have access to it and not have to worry about being financially ruined. One of the things that has added to the cost of health care in this country is people using the emergency room as their primary care. Why, because they don't have the insurance to go to the doctor on a regular basis. So what could have been an easily treatable condition becomes a very expensive one.

For those like freedom4all who says don't mess with my insurance I say fair enough. But what happens if you loose yours? Is there anyone out there who does not worry, especially nowadays, about losing their job and health insurance? Some might say they will use COBRA. How long do you expect to be able to afford COBRA with no job? Assuming you are even eligible.

All I can say is something needs to change. Just look at what you were paying two years ago and what you are paying now. All that money going into the insurance company’s coffers is money not going into the economy. Does that mean I think the government should take it over? Looking at the mess that is MEDICARE/MEDICAID I would say no. However there has to be something that can make the system better for all of us. Maybe increased competition between insurance companies, some sort of tort reform.

 

[Freedom4all]

To say that we have the best system in the world and should be left as is seems to be incredibly naive. If that were true everyone would have access to it and not have to worry about being financially ruined.

Thats two different arguments that people like to lump together. It is undeniable that the quality and availability of care in the USA is top notch. But that comes at a price.

The problem is how to make it available to everyone...and...that everyone can afford...and...all the time... regardless of their financial situation. Having mandates that says the people that have, should pay for the have nots, doesn't bode well.

For those like freedom4all who says don't mess with my insurance I say fair enough. But what happens if you loose yours? Is there anyone out there who does not worry, especially nowadays, about losing their job and health insurance? Some might say they will use COBRA. How long do you expect to be able to afford COBRA with no job? Assuming you are even eligible.

Theres no debate there is a problem that needs fixing, however the governments proposals so far fall short. Very short.

Does that mean I think the government should take it over? Looking at the mess that is MEDICARE/MEDICAID I would say no. However there has to be something that can make the system better for all of us. Maybe increased competition between insurance companies, some sort of tort reform.

Couldn't agree more!

 

[southwind]

There is 1 "U" KC, please spin again or would you like to solve the puzzle?

How about we put the alien issue aside for a moment. Who do you think pays for all the US citizens who do not have health insurance? Hell, who do you think pays for out rages deductibles that have to paid after the fact like the $2,000 I am not going to pay? They had me fork over $1250 up front to pay for the surgery and a few month later they decide they were off on their calculations and want $2k more. Yea, that will happen right after I sprout wings and fly (go ahead Dell, find a picture of a cat with wings..... I know you can do it.)

Bottom line is our health system is broken. It has been broken for decades. There are a lot of people making a lot of money at our expense. People are being denied care by hospitals and by insurance companies. Drug companies are making a fortune. Lawyers are making a fortune. Hospitals are making a fortune. Mean while a simple hernia operation runs over $15,000 and that is for someone who has insurance. For someone uninsured it is probably closer to $20k or $30k. So someone who is uninsured has to who it does not get worse and kill him or go into debt to save his life. Some choice.

Who's going to service your healthcare needs , if Obama-care is passed and all of the "Newly-Unionized Obama-care Employees" go on strike !

Don't think for one second, that it can't happen !

 

[delldude]

This is my first foray into the whole health care "debate". I say "debate" because a lot of time it turns into a shouting match. And when people are shouting at each other honest discussion goes out the window.

My thoughts are this. To say that we have the best system in the world and should be left as is seems to be incredibly naive. If that were true everyone would have access to it and not have to worry about being financially ruined. One of the things that has added to the cost of health care in this country is people using the emergency room as their primary care. Why, because they don't have the insurance to go to the doctor on a regular basis. So what could have been an easily treatable condition becomes a very expensive one.

For those like freedom4all who says don't mess with my insurance I say fair enough. But what happens if you loose yours? Is there anyone out there who does not worry, especially nowadays, about losing their job and health insurance? Some might say they will use COBRA. How long do you expect to be able to afford COBRA with no job? Assuming you are even eligible.

All I can say is something needs to change. Just look at what you were paying two years ago and what you are paying now. All that money going into the insurance company’s coffers is money not going into the economy. Does that mean I think the government should take it over? Looking at the mess that is MEDICARE/MEDICAID I would say no. However there has to be something that can make the system better for all of us. Maybe increased competition between insurance companies, some sort of tort reform.

Chill out or you'll get this thread closed too................

 

[KCFlyer]

Chill out or you'll get this thread closed too................

Here's something I noticed about conservatives:

1. Social security is useless when you have a job and a 401k. Of course, should the stock market tank close to your retirement age...Alpo doesn't taste THAT bad...an social security doesn't look so bad either.

2. Medical coverage is great...as long as you have an employer that is paying over 80% of your premium cost. Not so great when you are out of a job and find yourself having to cover the 80% your employer was.

3. Private sector medical coverage is great unless you find yourself laid off, can't afford COBRA and THEN discover that you've got something like rheumatoid arthritis...oops...prexisting condition. Oh well...you've always got that "retirement" 401k to tap into.

Oh by they way...Sprint just announced another 2,000 job cuts (in addition to the 8,000 they had earlier this year). That's 2,000 more folks in red state Kansas who might find themselves turning blue as they hold bake sales to fund their health care costs.

It's all about "me me me" with the conservatives...."Why should I pay for healthcare for some deadbeat who doesn't want to work"....until you find yourself among those "deadbeats".

Here is something for conservatives to ponder: "There but for the grace of God go I".

 

[Garfield1966]

For those like freedom4all who says don't mess with my insurance I say fair enough. But what happens if you loose yours? Is there anyone out there who does not worry, especially nowadays, about losing their job and health insurance? Some might say they will use COBRA. How long do you expect to be able to afford COBRA with no job? Assuming you are even eligible.

Been there and done that. COBRA is a joke. IIRC the premium for just me per month was over $700. Add my wife on that and it was well over $1000. For someone who lost their job, COBRA is a farce unless you have a substantial savings. I was fortunate enough to get a part time job with a company that provides health care to part timers. I got mine after 6 months. Thankfully it was before my hernia became worse and I was able to get it repaired.

The health system is great if you can afford coverage or to pay for it your self. For the rest of us .. we just hope we don't get sick. The deductibles alone can drain bank accounts quite quickly, let alone the cost of care with out insurance.

As I believe was mentioned here, everyone says Medicare sucks but I don;t hear anyone saying to dump it, except those who do not rely on it because all of them are saying don't touch it.

I think most of us agree government is not the answer. They are grossly inefficient and corrupt. Industry is at least in my opinion pretty much the same as government. If they could/would make the system efficient we would not be having this debate. I think the only way to fix it is to have both of them run it. The government sets down the guide lines such as ..

- Everyone is covered
- no pre existing
- no denial of service
- care is determined by the patient the doctor and perhaps a 3rd party of civilians when a dispute arises.
-profit on the corporate side is based on efficiency, cust satisfaction and some other factors


Then the insurance companies can say if you want this we need $X.XX amount of money. It gets opened up for bidding perhaps or competition. Hospitals and insurance companies are going to have to compete with each other and we will be the customer.

I believe the funds should come from a national pool. The tax for health care should be based on a percentage of salary. Just taking a WAG I would say between 3%-5% should cover it. Perhaps put it on a graduated scale more you make the more you pay. Either way, most will be paying quite a bit less than they are now. Companies don't need to worry about providing health care. Every US citizen and resident gets an ID card and they go for treatment when they are sick like they do now. There could be a modest co-pay to keep people a little honest. Same for drugs. Start funding the FDA so that certification of drugs can be quicker and more efficient. Perhaps start government funding of drug research or hell, have the government get into the drug business. Start recruiting chemists and bio-engineers to start researching drugs and what have you.

OH yea, no deductibles. You walk in they fix you and you walk out. No one should have to worry about paying a bill to save their life.

No this idea is not perfect. Just things I have tossed together. Something has got to change. So far all I have seen are complaints. Here is an idea. Do any of you have a different idea or just complaints?

I yield the floor.

 

[southwind]

Here's something I noticed about conservatives:

1. Social security is useless when you have a job and a 401k. Of course, should the stock market tank close to your retirement age...Alpo doesn't taste THAT bad...an social security doesn't look so bad either.

2. Medical coverage is great...as long as you have an employer that is paying over 80% of your premium cost. Not so great when you are out of a job and find yourself having to cover the 80% your employer was.

3. Private sector medical coverage is great unless you find yourself laid off, can't afford COBRA and THEN discover that you've got something like rheumatoid arthritis...oops...prexisting condition. Oh well...you've always got that "retirement" 401k to tap into.

Oh by they way...Sprint just announced another 2,000 job cuts (in addition to the 8,000 they had earlier this year). That's 2,000 more folks in red state Kansas who might find themselves turning blue as they hold bake sales to fund their health care costs.

It's all about "me me me" with the conservatives...."Why should I pay for healthcare for some deadbeat who doesn't want to work"....until you find yourself among those "deadbeats".

Here is something for conservatives to ponder: "There but for the grace of God go I".

Heres something I've noticed about Liberal-Democrats :

1. They love spending other peoples money..................period !

Here is something for Liberal-Democrats to ponder: "There but for your wallet I go".

 

[delldude]

For someone who lost their job, COBRA is a farce unless you have a substantial savings.

If you have a PBGC pension it ain't too bad........

Flyer........I prefer Prime cuts......

Went with Dish Network....

Little Dell......

Little Dell at 43:

 

[Garfield1966]

Kind of what I though would happen. More complaining but not a single productive idea.

 

[signals]

According to the NY Post, Obama won't call the Ft. Hood massacre an Islamist terrorist act. He also speaks in weasel words when it comes to trying to pull his agenda through. When it comes to healthcare, saying I can keep my same doctor doesn't mean that I won't pay more to do so. In our new contract we may get a petty raise but my company wants to raise my co-pay for doctor visits by $20. Both my prescriptions, co-pay and insurance rates have gone up in the past year. This is how they want you to pay for their universal insurance.

If you feel I don't know what I am talking about, then you didn't notice the 'quality' of your insurance and healthcare drop when everyone was forced to switch to an HMO. Sure I kept the same doctor, but unless you can prove you worked around carcinogens they won't give you an MRI.

So basically the shmucks in the middle class are going to pay for this one. If you are poor you have Medicaid for FREE at the cost of the taxpayer. The rich better have insurance, but then again they might have doctors as friends.

Having lived in a country with universal insurance, I can honestly say that they will hospitalize you for a common cold. The country may be corrupt, or doctors are milking the taxpayers and insured at the expense of others.

 

[Garfield1966]

How are the insurance increases related to universal health care that does not even exist yet? Have you ever been to a county hospital? I've been to JPS in Dallas. Scariest place I have ever been in terms of health care. Would not wish that experience on anyone.

OH Yea, what's your idea to fix the system?

 

[tech2101]

According to the NY Post, Obama won't call the Ft. Hood massacre an Islamist terrorist act.

What?

 

[southwind]

Kind of what I though would happen. More complaining but not a single productive idea.

And Obama-care IS productive ?