Horton: restructuring could slip if labor talks drag

[Deleted member 17588]

http://www.reuters.c...me=domesticNews


Typical. The company, with their kick-the-can business strategy, wasted our time and stalled for years in negotiations and wasted earlier chances to turn this airline around to profitability now, all the sudden when it's crunch time, puts a gun to our head and doesn't want us to drag our feet. I'm so F-ing sick of this whole mess and with corporate sleazebags.

 

[jimntx]

Translated into the English...

"Just in case warmed over "Cornerstone strategy" doesn't work, we are positioning ourselves to blame the unions for the failure. We can then award ourselves a big bonus for having the insight to recognize the "real" reason for the failure."

 

[Lloyd Grey]

The answer my friend, is to vote NO again....

the answer is VOTE NO! AGAIN...

 

[eolesen]

Typical. The company, with their kick-the-can business strategy, wasted our time and stalled for years in negotiations

Who wasted whose time with negotiations?... Seems to me that the company's ask has been pretty consistent since 2008 or whenever talks began. If they were doing a Lorenzo move (come to an agreement, move the bar lower, rinse & repeat), you'd have more of an argument... but they haven't. The only thing that changed was the value of the savings they sought once the company entered bankruptcy, which is to be expected since there's all the other "stuff" which enters into the picture once the lawyers get involved...

It's just my impression, but APA under Lloyd Hill wasn't really interested in negotiating, and I seem to recall APFA being called out by the NMB for wasting *their* time. Who knows about the TWU. There's really no transparency on the process and their leadership doesn't communicate anything meaningful.

As the Meatloaf song goes, two out of three ain't bad, and I suspect there's a chance you might be accusing the wrong side of delay tactics.

I know it's probably natural to simply assume management is always to blame, kind of like how a husband is always the one who can never seem to do anything right.

 

[jimntx]

In the alternate universe in which you and AMR management exist, I suppose one could see your way. However, it's not called the "company ask", it's called negotiations for a reason. There is supposed to be give and take on both sides. For the past several years, yes the "company ask" has been consistent...but, there has been no negotiations. It didn't matter what the union was willing to concede, the company's response was always the original ask.

You and the company enjoy your alternate universe, there is a real chance that reality (as defined by the real world) may come crashing down on both of you. AMR may end up holding the same bag that Pan Am, Eastern, and Braniff ended up with. Nada, except for a footnote in the history of commercial aviation. If you kick your dog often enough, he may rise up and bite the crap out of you.

 

[olderguyAMT]

Translated into the English...

"Just in case warmed over "Cornerstone strategy" doesn't work, we are positioning ourselves to blame the unions for the failure. We can then award ourselves a big bonus for having the insight to recognize the "real" reason for the failure."

Agree, but fearless leaders don't need any reason for giving themselves a huge bonus. The Board of Directors will ok any bonus plan, as they get their slice of the pie too. Too many cronies slapping each other on the back being in the good ol' boys club.

By the people, of the people, and for the people; does not apply to corporations. Sad......

Boston Consultancy Group is spearheading the Cascade Project, which reorganizes mgmt. one level at a time. Info on jetnet. Will we have Horton clones at all levels? Will they be people persons with people skills? Or hard core - do as I say, not as I do - types. The company wants to employ CI, Lean Manuf., and Six Segma. To do this effectively, they have to have empowered employees. Old school managers don't like, and are threatened by lowly worker empowerment. Will they keep the managers with no people skills, and bring in business consultants to manage and lead the failed CI programs? How can the lowly peasant worker brainstorm and plan while working together in a team environment after being hammered for so long? Its managements job to create a work environment so that workers can be inspired and motivated. How are we going to be motivated if we are at the bottom of the comparable pay scales or working as OSM's doing AMT jobs in the hangar? Brainstorming will be scarce as hens teeth if we are pissed off.

 

[jimntx]

No, they are not keeping the people with or without people skills. They are keeping the relatives.

 

[Frank Szabo]

There are many adages/snippets available to describe the standoff between AMR and its people - three of them are:

1) The cobbler always wears the worst shoes.

2) "Physician, heal thyself"- (Luke 4:23)

3) "Thank you" doesn't pay the fiddler.

I've no doubt things got sorta bad for a while within the corporation but, in the interest of future cooperation, the last thing one should do in that situation is start lying and playing games with one's supposed "Greatest Asset" and "Partners" - "Those without whose hard work the airline would not exist" - those who show up every day to wrench on a aircraft or do things in the background to grease the wheels of the work - the workers. Simple words that could have meant much were used in such a way as to render them meaningless. - the paper those words were printed on had infinitely more value. Trust them now, should we?

Nobody I know expected nor wanted the world offered to them on a silver platter. They simply wanted their employer to quit lying to them and give them a fair shake.

There's plenty of blame to go around on both sides of the table.

 

[chris perry]

Who wasted whose time with negotiations?... Seems to me that the company's ask has been pretty consistent since 2008 or whenever talks began. If they were doing a Lorenzo move (come to an agreement, move the bar lower, rinse & repeat), you'd have more of an argument... but they haven't. The only thing that changed was the value of the savings they sought once the company entered bankruptcy, which is to be expected since there's all the other "stuff" which enters into the picture once the lawyers get involved...

It's just my impression, but APA under Lloyd Hill wasn't really interested in negotiating, and I seem to recall APFA being called out by the NMB for wasting *their* time. Who knows about the TWU. There's really no transparency on the process and their leadership doesn't communicate anything meaningful.

As the Meatloaf song goes, two out of three ain't bad, and I suspect there's a chance you might be accusing the wrong side of delay tactics.

I know it's probably natural to simply assume management is always to blame, kind of like how a husband is always the one who can never seem to do anything right.

This is the same company that when my daughter was on every piece of life support made in 2004,they had the balls to ask for more information, (for family leave)after her doctor wrote a 2 page report and submitted it to AA medical.This company is famous for dragging ass.

 

[Barfbag]

Coming out of Bankruptcy Court or reorganizing is merely a stay of execution in this airline game anyway. Whoever's on top today, be it DAL or what may, will certainly be on the bottom tomorrow. As long as deregulation is king and people are allowed to bid for lower and lower airfares and revolving door bankruptcy courts allow dead airlines to rise again without livable wages for career minded and dedicated professionals... this business is finished.

 

[olderguyAMT]

The answer my friend, is to vote NO again....

the answer is VOTE NO! AGAIN...

Maybe it would be better if the restrucuring scamalone plan slipped past the end of Sept, which will be the beginning of the Alternative business plan agendas. High psi on the board of directors.

Time for us to drag our collective feet for a change?

 

[eolesen]

Uh, not quite. The judge has the ability to extend exclusivity up to a maximum of 18 months, and the longer the labor discussions drag out, the more likely that becomes. You're nowhere near the 18 month mark.

Wouldn't surprise me if it got close to 18 months and AA filed to declare that provision (capping exclusivity) as detrimental to the company's ability to restructure. Flawed or not, at least AA appears to have a plan to present, unlike other airlines who spent years diddling around *after* getting labor concessions but not coming up with a reorganization plan...

 

[aapitbull]

Uh, not quite. The judge has the ability to extend exclusivity up to a maximum of 18 months, and the longer the labor discussions drag out, the more likely that becomes. You're nowhere near the 18 month mark.

Wouldn't surprise me if it got close to 18 months and AA filed to declare that provision (capping exclusivity) as detrimental to the company's ability to restructure. Flawed or not, at least AA appears to have a plan to present, unlike other airlines who spent years diddling around *after* getting labor concessions but not coming up with a reorganization plan...

Yes they have a plan gut everything and everybody and drive away with the loot, in most places its a felony but not in BK court they have add another billion to the war chest since Nov. As the old saying goes the rich get richer and the poor................

 

[jimntx]

Flawed or not, at least AA appears to have a plan to present, unlike other airlines who spent years diddling around *after* getting labor concessions but not coming up with a reorganization plan...

Well, if you call warmed-over Cornerstone Strategy--which has proven spectacularly unsuccessful so far--having a plan. "We're going to keep doing this over and over. It must be the right thing to do...we thought of it." Of course, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is one of the signs of insanity.

 

[frontline]

I don't think it would be healthy for us to do the United thing and drag on for years in bankruptcy court.

It is going to be painful any way you cut it. Let's just get this OVER WITH and move on.