Hourly Pay Rate
- Thread starter WSurf
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They are absolutely correct.
And compare the hourly rates for the U 737 and 320 which is 125.00 bucks an hour.
Yet, Southwest can be profitable paying their pilots substantially higher than either U or AWA (140.00 on all jets) as our company tells us we must have rates that are "competitive" with the LCC's.
As I've said all along, it's the management and not the pay rates that determine profitability. Anyone, pilot or otherwise, who even considers giving this company another dime of pay or work rules is just plain nuts.
Imagine putting the LUV model on this property. Then putting the LUV management here to run it.
It's not the employees folks. It's the people who manage us. Always has been, always will be. Wake up.
pilot
And compare the hourly rates for the U 737 and 320 which is 125.00 bucks an hour.
Yet, Southwest can be profitable paying their pilots substantially higher than either U or AWA (140.00 on all jets) as our company tells us we must have rates that are "competitive" with the LCC's.
As I've said all along, it's the management and not the pay rates that determine profitability. Anyone, pilot or otherwise, who even considers giving this company another dime of pay or work rules is just plain nuts.
Imagine putting the LUV model on this property. Then putting the LUV management here to run it.
It's not the employees folks. It's the people who manage us. Always has been, always will be. Wake up.
pilot
pitguy
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The pilot group always had the option to vote no or withhold services, but they realize there is a substantial number of pilots out of work and the pilot group has limited options. It is a shame what has happened to this industry. I would bet the house they would still take another pay cut if given the opportunity. What else are they going to do?
twoturnin
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Not so sure about management being the only one at fault here----not oranges/oranges here contract anyways----last 18 yrs of these contracts have made this place a employment agency of sorts not a money making airline--IMHO---with a PIA contact might have been a little different profit wise---but who cares about profit anyway. Just show me the money. Ive been indoctrinated long ago.
Let me tell what else:
My contention is that if a person has the intelligence and education to sit at the controls of an airliner he or she can do pretty much whatever they want to do.
I was hired here in 1977. Since that time I have owned and sold 3 businesses which all opertated at a profit and were sold at a profit. One involved consulting, one residential construction and one franchise. All the while fulfilling my flying duties and responsibilities to a once great company.
These other endeavors involved a lot of work. In fact, tons of work. But the rewards were and continue to be substantial and the experiences gave me the insight that few other pilots have. Most have your attitude of "what else am I going to do?". That is a defeatist attitude and allows the managments to get away with turning a profession into a job. The Delta and Northwes pilots are attempting to stop it now but I digress.
The "love of flying" and lack of wanting to do anything other than fly is where the problem lies. The air marshalls are making more than our mainline copilots and express captains. That is ridiculous. But we have ourselves to blame.
Would they take another pay cut? Most likely. But it would sure be nice if the pilots understood that flying is a profession worthy of substatially more than they are being paid. After a long time in this industry the degradation of our profession is truly a sad sight for me to see. But we are only as strong as the membership of our profession. And most are very weak and afraid to take a chance outside of this business. Hopefully Delta and Northwest will lead the way in returning our "jobs" back into a profession.
pilot
autofixer
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Pilot, From a fellow business owner and pilot, I wish I could have articulated that well.
There was also a belief amongst other groups, that the pilots were the problem and when they were cut down to a "reasonable rate", all would be well with the world. You see it at Delta and NWA today. I knew everyone would take it in the teeth, if the pilots were to give back. We had no support from the other groups and as a result, everyone now works for pennys on the dollar of their pre-BK pay and benefits if they have not been subed out. You can see that attitude even with this thread..."is it true that SWA pilots make...?"
There was also a belief amongst other groups, that the pilots were the problem and when they were cut down to a "reasonable rate", all would be well with the world. You see it at Delta and NWA today. I knew everyone would take it in the teeth, if the pilots were to give back. We had no support from the other groups and as a result, everyone now works for pennys on the dollar of their pre-BK pay and benefits if they have not been subed out. You can see that attitude even with this thread..."is it true that SWA pilots make...?"
PITbull
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Pilot,
I blame the union leadership for that mentality. If they would build their folks up instead of allowing management to rip them down, there may not be this type of low wage for piloting a $50 million piece of equiptment, 6 LEGS a day, carrying 1,000 pax lives a day in their hands in all kinds of inclimate weather and god knows how many on the groupd if one should crash.
The reason you have this complacency is because the upper level of union leaders are all about keeping folks employed and they believe management's bullshitt. Why I believe this is because management doens't believe in their own bullshitt. No Senior level managment has taken a substantial decrease in over all compensation post 9/11 to accomodate the new industry environment...they have just shuffled their money around so that the overall compensation hasn't moved down.
That's why I believe its all nothing but smoke and mirrors and Jerry Glass-Lorenzo con aritists running around pulling down the morale and spirit of the worker and busting unions.
He is the Major player that made out with more millions than David S. and Neil C. compbined. That's why Lakefield and the U BOD made him an HR OFFicer so that he could get compensated more than a VP executive, and finish the deal of the merger last year.
Why I am hated so much by the Senior level U managment past and present is because THEY KNOW I KNOW!
pitguy
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pilot,
It must have been great to make all of that money in a part time job being a pilot for U before. It is a shame none of your business ventures did not work out so well that you still had to fly though. Hopefully the next one will for you. I wish you the best.
It must have been great to make all of that money in a part time job being a pilot for U before. It is a shame none of your business ventures did not work out so well that you still had to fly though. Hopefully the next one will for you. I wish you the best.
Old PSA
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One of the reasons for WN success(and there are many) has been their control of growth. They have grown about 15% a year. One of the benefits of this is that their workforce continues to average about 5 years of seniority and pay. What will be interesting is what happens when they can no longer grow number of employees at that rate.
Mtnman928
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I am afraid you have your history and cast of characters mixed up. The RC4 attempted to stop the willingness to give whatever it took and get any deal. The RC4 atleast wanted accountability and closer scrutiny of the proposals.
Instead, there was a rush to accept whatever came out of Crystal City.
You might have been thinking of another group on the MEC known as the 'GAG' or Giveaway Gang.
Mtnman
That's the beauty of it sparky. I don't have to fly. I do it because I'm senior and am one of the very few who have control over my schedule and life. I can assure you I would not be here were it not for that fact. Your anger and jealousy are showing. And you apparently don't understand entreprenuership. And yes, it is great "making all that money" outside of flying. It allowed me to vote no and have no fear of the consequences.
I worked my ass off as a younger man. The flying job was cash flow which allowed me to build and sell the businesses. I had a plan. I executed the plan. Now I'm enjoying the last few years of the flying career.
But the bottom line is that the pilot pay issue is a red herring. If Southwest can make money paying guys 190 bucks an hour then how do we lose money paying guys 125 bucks an hour? Answer: Piss poor management.
pilot
