What's new

Hourly Pay Rate

...I don't have to fly... I do it because I'm senior ...Your anger and jealousy are showing...it is great "making all that money" outside of flying... It allowed me to vote no and have no fear of the consequences....

...Now I'm enjoying the last few years of the flying career...


pilot



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

pilot,
I am surprised since you retirement age you didn’t get out while the getting was good. Why did you stay at U and put up with the garbage when you have all of that wealth?
I can see you are a newbie here on the boards. I am not jealous. I have things pretty well. Probably better than you did at this my age. I did spend quite awhile at U, but I am much younger than you and I left on my terms. I am still confused why you put up with the pain of U and why you did not get out a few years ago. It just does not all add up.

:mf_boff:
 
Why didn’t US hedge years ago
Usairways probably did not have the cash to hedge fuel at that time.

It was a brilliant move on Southwest's part to hedge fuel when they did.

Southwest's fuel hedging advantage will not last indefinitly.
 
Simple pitguy. I've been flying the 330 for the past 4 years and was not old enough to take an early out when it was first offered. My schedule allows me to work the other business I have (the 4th) while providing a good cash flow and medical insurance.

And I enjoy the flying. No reason for me to quit yet. Besides, I can remain a thorn in the sides of the GAG for as long as I want and attempt to sway the 57% of yes voters back into remembering what they do for a living. I applaud you for leaving. I wish more had the work ethic and confidence to do it.

Let me put it to you this way. If you had a seniority number less than a hundred would you quit? My garbage can at that seniority level is substatially less full than guys junior. No, that is not fair it just happens to be the position I find myself in.

pilot
 
Simple pitguy. I've been flying the 330 for the past 4 years and was not old enough to take an early out when it was first offered. My schedule allows me to work the other business I have (the 4th) while providing a good cash flow and medical insurance.

And I enjoy the flying. No reason for me to quit yet. Besides, I can remain a thorn in the sides of the GAG for as long as I want and attempt to sway the 57% of yes voters back into remembering what they do for a living. I applaud you for leaving. I wish more had the work ethic and confidence to do it.

Let me put it to you this way. If you had a seniority number less than a hundred would you quit? My garbage can at that seniority level is substatially less full than guys junior. No, that is not fair it just happens to be the position I find myself in.

pilot
pilot has the best of both worlds, He is the company’s worst night mare he can stage a job action with no problem
 
No action was taken so far and it never will at Airways by the pilots.

Never ever.
 
FYI, Southwest has 65% of their fuel hedged at $32.00/barrel for 2006....These hedges were put into place years ago... 😉

This actually is not correct. When I attended a CCY meeting in Feb. 2005, it was reported by senior managment giving the presentation that LUV was hedged at .68 a gallon not per barrel and was 80% hedged in 2005, and that LUV was only hedged 5% for 2006. Point being is that in order to hedge your fuel in 2005 for 2006 usage, the prices were extremely higher than years ago.

In comparison, U was not hedged at all in BK, and was given appoval by the judge to use $50 million first quarter to buy fuel at going rate in 2005.
 
This actually is not correct. When I attended a CCY meeting in Feb. 2005, it was reported by senior managment giving the presentation that LUV was hedged at .68 a gallon not per barrel and was 80% hedged in 2005, and that LUV was only hedged 5% for 2006. Point being is that in order to hedge your fuel in 2005 for 2006 usage, the prices were extremely higher than years ago.

Neither is that. If that's what they told you at CCY, they weren't shooting straight. WN only 5% hedged for 2006? Only in US' managements' wildest dreams. Here's WN's fuel hedging discussion as of 12/31/04 (from their 2004 earnings release in Jan. 2005):

Although we are 85 percent hedged in first quarter 2005 with prices capped at $26 per barrel, based on current market conditions, we presently expect first quarter 2005 average jet fuel cost per gallon to exceed fourth quarter 2004's 89.1 cents. We are 85 percent hedged for the remainder of 2005 with prices capped at $26 per barrel; 65 percent in 2006 at $32 per barrel; over 45 percent in 2007 at $31 per barrel; 30 percent in 2008 at $33 per barrel; and over 25 percent in 2009 at $35 per barrel.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?...4088&highlight=

And here's the same discussion a year later as of 12/31/05:

For first quarter 2006, we are over 75 percent hedged with prices capped at $36 per barrel, but presently expect our hedged first quarter 2006 fuel price to approximate $1.45 per gallon. We are over 70 percent hedged for the remainder of 2006 at $36 per barrel; over 60 percent in 2007 at $39 per barrel; over 35 percent in 2008 at $38 per barrel; and about 30 percent in 2009 at $39 per barrel.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?...5522&highlight=

WN's hedging benefits aren't perpetual. But by time WN is paying market price for gas, some other airlines might have run out of cash and options.
 
Back in Feb. 2005 meeting, it was reported by U that LUV was hedged (at THAT time), 5% for 2006. They may have upped the % but where could they buy the petroleum at $4.45 a gallon.

At these meetings, they speak to "price per gallon" not barrel.

The problem I have with your figues above is that if you are truly capped at a certain price per barrel, how can the figures change from the Dec. report of 2004 and the 2005 fiures prospectively. Unless they are increasing their hedge little at a time with promises from the supplier to cap the prices.
 
Back in Feb. 2005 meeting, it was reported by U that LUV was hedged (at THAT time), 5% for 2006. They may have upped the % but where could they buy the petroleum at $4.45 a gallon.

Either they lied to you or you misunderstood what they said. Simple as that. The quotes I posted came directly from WN, not management at USAir. Both may be liars, but I tend to believe Gary Kelly on the subject of WN's fuel hedges.

At these meetings, they speak to "price per gallon" not barrel.

The problem I have with your figures above is that if you are truly capped at a certain price per barrel, how can the figures change from the Dec. report of 2004 and the 2005 fiures prospectively. Unless they are increasing their hedge little at a time with promises from the supplier to cap the prices.

Heging positions are fluid and dynamic. The figures change all the time, as WN enters into additional hedging contracts. Between 12/04 and 12/05, WN entered into additional hedging transactions. The effect of those additional transactions changed their coverage ratio and their average per barrel price. And if anyone at USAir told you in Feb. 2005 that WN was only 5% hedged for 2006, they are abject liars. In Jan. 2005, WN said that they were 65% hedged for 2006 at $32/bbl. Not 5%.

WN has not expressed its fuel hedging positions in terms of "price per gallon," it has consistently expressed its hedges in terms of per-barrel prices. A barrel contains 42 gallons - dunno whether WN is talking about a barrel of jet fuel or a barrel of oil.
 
I don't know about that...there are millions of doctors and lawyers and the pay is not substandard. You pay for skill.

It's much harder to become a doctor or a lawyer. There is some degree of "good lawyer" and "good doctor" and "Bad lawyer" and "Bad doctor" and to a very real extent this allows for market based drivers in pay.

A pilot passes the check rides and medical or he/she does not. The pay is then tied to seniority, which allows a young (relatively) good pilot to make peanuts and an old (relatively) bad pilot to rake it in.

That, and there is a glut of pilots and not enough doctors or lawyers (although one might argue about the lawyers). Leads to lower pay.

Finally, ALPA has managed to shoot itself in the ### over the years with it's handling of scope and tossing the younglings under the bus. And the Rick Dubinsky-ish greed probably did not help, either.
 
It's much harder to become a doctor or a lawyer. There is some degree of "good lawyer" and "good doctor" and "Bad lawyer" and "Bad doctor" and to a very real extent this allows for market based drivers in pay.

A pilot passes the check rides and medical or he/she does not. The pay is then tied to seniority, which allows a young (relatively) good pilot to make peanuts and an old (relatively) bad pilot to rake it in.

That, and there is a glut of pilots and not enough doctors or lawyers (although one might argue about the lawyers). Leads to lower pay.

Finally, ALPA has managed to shoot itself in the ### over the years with it's handling of scope and tossing the younglings under the bus. And the Rick Dubinsky-ish greed probably did not help, either.

I agree with what you are saying and I have never equated myself on the same level as a doctor nor do I even want to think my profession is any thing like a lawyers’. But a profession it is and I really feel it has been cheapened.

(Now for the “In My Day†speech), when I was bouncing around the western states in a 182 it was hard just to get an airline to look at you much less hire you. We use to say it took 2 lunar landings to get an interview. In today’s world, you can get a job flying a jet with around 300 hours and almost zero real world experience. Those insurance rates must be astronomical. Just don’t touch anything!!!

However, I felt that every flight planted a bit of knowledge within me and hopefully made me a better pilot. So it’s not just passing a check ride or a medical but it’s all of the “life’s lessons†you learn operating in the system to keep out of trouble. Whether it’s some grass strip in the middle of nowhere or one of the busiest airports in the country it’s all mentally noted. It’s this that you bring to the profession and it sickens me to see how quickly it has been compromised.

The RC4 had nothing to do with the situation we are all in but how members of the MEC had a far greater plan for themselves and used their position for personal gain at the expense of the line pilot. Wait and see where they land when all of this is has played out.

It’s such a commonplace thing to get people from point A to point B that they loose sight of every thing we do to complete their journey. It looks easy and most of the time it is but many times it isn’t and that’s why I want a guy or gal with a few gray hairs up front with some real aviation sense to get through the tough spots.

We aren’t doctors and we aren’t window attendants at McDonalds but we take pride it what we do and try to give the passengers a safe flight. We feel good when we get YOU were you want to go and feel bad when we don’t.

As far as ALPA's posterior wound, you don't have to go any further that Mid Atlantic to see just who got sacrificed.

Mtnman
 
I am afraid you have your history and cast of characters mixed up. The RC4 attempted to stop the willingness to give whatever it took and get any deal. The RC4 atleast wanted accountability and closer scrutiny of the proposals.
Instead, there was a rush to accept whatever came out of Crystal City.

You might have been thinking of another group on the MEC known as the 'GAG' or Giveaway Gang.

Mtnman


And for this little excersize in chest beating, I lost 25% of my vacation, 90% of the value of my stock and a minimum fleet count that cost us over 40 aircraft. We're reduced to name calling and a stupidity that defies all logic. We hire high priced accountants, lawyers and advisors and then refuse to follow their advice. The fact that people toss around names like GAG and RC4 tells me that they don't care about this pilot group as a whole, just their little faction whatever it may be. LOA 93 was a failure. It was the product of poor negotiating and a disfuntional union.

We deserve what ever we get because we cannot get along. Everyone wants to think they are right and when things blow up in their face, look for others to blame. This pilot group suffers from a lack of education. The information is out there but they won't take the time to reseach the facts. Emotionalism and rumor have taken over.

The hayday is over and we have no one to blame but ourselves.

A320 Driver <_<
 
Correct A320---18 yrs of this stuff---oo my---wife would love to adjust the hat size of some of these helpful RC4 knotheads for all the great stuff they've given our family. Oooops sorry ---thats for our co-bothers the IAM to do ---another proud bunch of gangsters. Jerry G has got to just love it.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top