How long do they pay you your Pension

[eolesen]

Not everyone in HR knows every program. A field rep knows policies related to hire/fire inside out, but won't neccesarily have all the details on retirement benefits. Likewise, my wife worked in benefits but couldn't have given the right advise on something a field rep would normally manage.

Rather than ask on the Internet, advise your friend to call a retirement counselor at HDQ. They probably have an online calculator somewhere to show the differences a year or five can make.

As for PBGC, he's only screwed if he is planning to survive only on his pension at 55, which is a really dumb idea in the first place because it will be half (if not less) than what he'd get waiting for whatever the age is now to be considered a full retiree.

Pretty certain PBCG doesn't pay out supplemental pay or other gaps that unions sometime negotiate to bridge people to a legitimate retirement age. Go ask guys at GM who did their 30 years on the assembly line and early retired at 48 or 49...

Still somewhat frightening if you don't know how your own retirement plan works. It's like deciding to save for college when your kids turn 14... It's not like it should come as a surprise that the need is going to be there -- you have at least 18 years advance notice...

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Frankly, your ignorance about your own pension (and your "I'm too young to care about it yet, since it probably won't be there for me when I retire" attititude) is astounding.



What exactly did the coworker ask the HR person? I doubt it was "will I get my pension every month til I die or just for 20 years?" Or might it have been "If I retire at age 55 with 16 years of service, how much will my monthly check be?"



This is also not accurate. Doesn't matter what age you are when your pension is terminated (Company filing for Ch 11 has nothing to do with it unless AA also terminates the pension in Ch 11), only that you are vested in the pension when it is terminated. If you retire and receive a check from the pension, and the company subsequently terminates the pension in Ch 11, then you get the same check from the PBGC (unless you're highly paid, like a pilot or management).

I doubt it was "will I get my pension every month til I die or just for 20 years?"

Thats what he asked and the HR person said I dont know


If the company terminates the pension in BK and you are under 55 you will get nothing from the PBGC. You have to be 55 or older in order to get benefits from the PBGC.

Considering I am not 55 and wont be for another ten years my ignorance about something I have no control over is OK by me. I will be surprised if AArogant AAirlines is even around in ten years. Then when I am 55 I will look into my pension and see if i am able to retire or have to work another ten years until Im 65. 20 years AA and a pension is almost a joke ignorant seems the easier option

 

[Kellerguy]

Thats what he asked and the HR person said I dont know


If the company terminates the pension in BK and you are under 55 you will get nothing from the PBGC. You have to be 55 or older in order to get benefits from the PBGC.

Considering I am not 55 and wont be for another ten years my ignorance about something I have no control over is OK by me. I will be surprised if AArogant AAirlines is even around in ten years. Then when I am 55 I will look into my pension and see if i am able to retire or have to work another ten years until Im 65. 20 years AA and a pension is almost a joke ignorant seems the easier option

I don't think this is good information. Posts like this whip up hysteria and more bad information. The below quote is directly from PBGC.

When Pension Plans End: Termination
Q: How can an employer terminate a pension plan?

A: There are two ways an employer can terminate its pension plan.
The employer can end the plan in a standard termination but only after showing PBGC that the plan has enough money to pay all benefits owed to participants. The plan must either purchase an annuity from an insurance company (which will provide you with lifetime benefits when you retire) or, if your plan allows, issue a lump-sum payment that covers your entire benefit. Before purchasing your annuity, your plan administrator must give you an advance notice that identifies the insurance company (or companies) that your employer may select to provide the annuity. PBGC's guarantee ends when your employer purchases your annuity or gives you the lump-sum payment.
If the plan does not have enough money to pay all pension benefits owed to participants, the employer may apply for a distress termination if the employer is in financial distress. PBGC cannot grant the application, however, unless the employer proves to a bankruptcy court or to PBGC that the employer cannot remain in business unless the plan is terminated. If the application is granted, PBGC normally will take over as trustee of the plan and pay plan benefits, up to the legal limits, using plan assets and PBGC guarantee funds.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

I don't think this is good information. Posts like this whip up hysteria and more bad information. The below quote is directly from PBGC.

When Pension Plans End: Termination
Q: How can an employer terminate a pension plan?

A: There are two ways an employer can terminate its pension plan.
The employer can end the plan in a standard termination but only after showing PBGC that the plan has enough money to pay all benefits owed to participants. The plan must either purchase an annuity from an insurance company (which will provide you with lifetime benefits when you retire) or, if your plan allows, issue a lump-sum payment that covers your entire benefit. Before purchasing your annuity, your plan administrator must give you an advance notice that identifies the insurance company (or companies) that your employer may select to provide the annuity. PBGC's guarantee ends when your employer purchases your annuity or gives you the lump-sum payment.
If the plan does not have enough money to pay all pension benefits owed to participants, the employer may apply for a distress termination if the employer is in financial distress. PBGC cannot grant the application, however, unless the employer proves to a bankruptcy court or to PBGC that the employer cannot remain in business unless the plan is terminated. If the application is granted, PBGC normally will take over as trustee of the plan and pay plan benefits, up to the legal limits, using plan assets and PBGC guarantee funds.

Invest what you can and pray you have a pension when you are ready to retire

Ask the guys from TWA Pan American and Eastern how much they are getting from the PBGC...
The same will happen at AA guys that are under 55 will get next to nothing simple math. TWA guy sitting next to me had 15 years was under 55 and is getting 170 dollars a month so for every year of service you get 10 dollars. I should be concerned about my pension for that kind of scratch why bother its out of my control...
Pan Am guy 28 years but under 55 gets 325 dollars a month. Point is the money you would get is nothing but chump change.

 

[eolesen]

If the pension is terminated before you turn 55, YOU DO NOT LOSE IT. That's the whole point of the PBGC.

 

[FWAAA]

A lot of people confuse and equate the cessation of accrual of new benefits with "losing" the pension. Many employees of last decade's Ch 11 filers confused the two on this website and others. Whatever you have earned under the AA pension is what the PBGC will pay if it is terminated, unless you're a pilot or management (and thus, your pension exceeds the PBGC maximum).

 

[Bob Owens]

A lot of people confuse and equate the cessation of accrual of new benefits with "losing" the pension. Many employees of last decade's Ch 11 filers confused the two on this website and others. Whatever you have earned under the AA pension is what the PBGC will pay if it is terminated, unless you're a pilot or management (and thus, your pension exceeds the PBGC maximum).

Assuming the PGCB is solvent of course. Part of the reason for all the confusion is due to both the unions and the company trying to instill fear into the guys and justify why we gve up so much to void BK. We are constantly told how workers at Delta and UAL lost their pension, Delta was froen, they still owe $12 million and UAL was terminated but neither are going to get what they expected they were going to get when they retire. So despite the PBGC they did still "lose" some of their pennon. I hvent dug into it but I'm told the guys who retired before 65 do get screwed.

 

[787nightmare]

Assuming the PGCB is solvent of course. Part of the reason for all the confusion is due to both the unions and the company trying to instill fear into the guys and justify why we gve up so much to void BK. We are constantly told how workers at Delta and UAL lost their pension, Delta was froen, they still owe $12 million and UAL was terminated but neither are going to get what they expected they were going to get when they retire. So despite the PBGC they did still "lose" some of their pennon. I hvent dug into it but I'm told the guys who retired before 65 do get screwed.

Bob, how many years do I have to have before being vested in the AA pension plan?
It's 5 yrs at Boeing...

 

[700UW]

The Federal Law is five years.

 

[Harvey]

I'm a United Airlines mechanic who accually went through this pension stuff your all talking about I had almost twenty years with UAL when they went bankrupt and handed our pensions to the PBGC I lost over two thirds of my pension I'll get around $1600.00 dollars when I retirer thats a far cry from the $46000 to $54000 your talking about.....

 

[Harvey]

That's BS - it depends mainly on the pension's funding level if handed to the PBGC. Max yearly payment is over $44k which would cover most everyone that "works" for a living but doesn't do the pilots and other high-salaried people much good.

That's why the $46 million management slush fund was established in 2003 - so the "real" elite wouldn't take a cut in retirement benefits in the event a Chapter 11/dump-the-pension-on-the-PBGC thing were done. The mechs would be OK, but the lower office forms of life and the pilots would be totally screwed. Those already retired would notice little, if any, difference except perhaps the name printed on the checks.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I believe our (TWU) concern re: keeping the damned pensions has helped the pilots and higher paid non-elite office personnel more than it has us.

I'm a United Airlines mechanic who accually went through this pension stuff your all talking about I had almost twenty years with UAL when they went bankrupt and handed our pensions to the PBGC I lost over two thirds of my pension I'll get around $1600.00 dollars when I retirer thats a far cry from the $46000 to $54000 your talking about.....

 

[FWAAA]

I'm a United Airlines mechanic who accually went through this pension stuff your all talking about I had almost twenty years with UAL when they went bankrupt and handed our pensions to the PBGC I lost over two thirds of my pension I'll get around $1600.00 dollars when I retirer thats a far cry from the $46000 to $54000 your talking about.....

You didn't "lose" anything. With less than 20 years, you only earned the $1,600 instead of the much larger pension you would have received had you worked 35 or 40 years (or more). As I posted above, many employees confuse the two, and you're Exhibit A, helping to prove my point. Your pension will be much smaller than you expected it would be, had you worked until age 60 or 65. But the PBGC will pay you every dollar of pension that you earned prior to the pension's termination.

Your pension will eventually be paid as if you retired the day your pension was terminated, and since you "retired" with less than 20 years of work, your pension is naturally going to be small. For better or worse, you do have time to save via a 401(k) or IRA to help make up for the pension that will be smaller than you expected.

"Losing" one's pension: that's what happened to pilots who had already retired and saw their pensions reduced from $100k (or more) to the PBGC limit. Same with non-retired pilots who had already earned a pension larger than the PBGC limit but will receive a pension much smaller than the one they had already earned.

 

[xUT]

You didn't "lose" anything. With less than 20 years, you only earned the $1,600 instead of the much larger pension you would have received had you worked 35 or 40 years (or more). As I posted above, many employees confuse the two, and you're Exhibit A, helping to prove my point. Your pension will be much smaller than you expected it would be, had you worked until age 60 or 65. But the PBGC will pay you every dollar of pension that you earned prior to the pension's termination.

Your pension will eventually be paid as if you retired the day your pension was terminated, and since you "retired" with less than 20 years of work, your pension is naturally going to be small. For better or worse, you do have time to save via a 401(k) or IRA to help make up for the pension that will be smaller than you expected.

"Losing" one's pension: that's what happened to pilots who had already retired and saw their pensions reduced from $100k (or more) to the PBGC limit. Same with non-retired pilots who had already earned a pension larger than the PBGC limit but will receive a pension much smaller than the one they had already earned.

Very true, but I have 'NO' sympathy for United Pilots. They instigated and perpetuated the EFLOP and then chocked the goose.
IMHO, B) xUT

 

[xUT]

I'm a United Airlines mechanic who accually went through this pension stuff your all talking about I had almost twenty years with UAL when they went bankrupt and handed our pensions to the PBGC I lost over two thirds of my pension I'll get around $1600.00 dollars when I retirer thats a far cry from the $46000 to $54000 your talking about.....

Hey Harvey,
IMHO, you are confused, no mechanic is going to retire at $46000 to $54000 . The $46000 to $54000 number is the PBGC maximum (which mechanics will never see). You only lost about 1/4 of your pension but you will get your $1600 a month from the PBGC if you retire at 66. Retire at 55 and start looking at $900 a month. Ask your ex-AMFA reps for help as I know the reamsters will not provide it.
B) xUT (Retired)