How Northwest 'Took Over' Delta

[LukeAisleWalker]

http://www.thestreet.com/story/10467663/1/...over-delta.html

 

[starlight]

thanks Luke, it's what we been sayin' all along! Truly a NeW DELTA!

 

[dapoes]

http://www.thestreet.com/story/10467663/1/...over-delta.html

2BlacknBlue beat you to the punch on the expose with the ever so tired NWA/DAL urban myth.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

2BlacknBlue beat you to the punch on the expose with the ever so tired NWA/DAL urban myth.

First off, I'm not in a race to post articles so there's no beating anyone to any kind of punch.
Secondly, what is so mythical about 5 out of 10 of the top brass coming from NW? It's a fact.
It's like Jack Nicholson's character said in A Few Good Men, "You can't handle the truth!"

 

[jalbalpa]

Dupoes, you are the weakest link! Goodbye.

 

[dapoes]

First off, I'm not in a race to post articles so there's no beating anyone to any kind of punch.
Secondly, what is so mythical about 5 out of 10 of the top brass coming from NW? It's a fact.
It's like Jack Nicholson's character said in A Few Good Men, "You can't handle the truth!"

Oh I see, so 50% NWA execs and 50% DAL execs equals a NWA majority to reinforce that tired conspiracy theory? :blink:

Hardly.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Oh I see, so 50% NWA execs and 50% DAL execs equals a NWA majority to reinforce that tired conspiracy theory? :blink:

Hardly.

I guess you didn't read the article.
And what part of 4 execs PLUS the CEO (you know the guy who is the top decision maker) don't you understand? And what part of no more gentility but instead, strong-arm tactics (illustrating the drifting of DL's culture over to NW's) don't you understand? None, because you either didn't read the article or you did but have poor retention skills.

 

[dapoes]

I guess you didn't read the article.
And what part of 4 execs PLUS the CEO (you know the guy who is the top decision maker) don't you understand? And what part of no more gentility but instead, strong-arm tactics (illustrating the drifting of DL's culture over to NW's) don't you understand? None, because you either didn't read the article or you did but have poor retention skills.

Yes I read the entire article. Just because some one writes an article based opinions and assumptions (absent of any resemblance of factual data), doesn't make it any more true.

 

[Dignity]

The only thing I am going to say about R.A. before the court ordered forced paycut, he did approach our group and they basically wanted productivity from us...what they originally asked for and the flat out refusal to even discuss the issue and what we ended with, makes me wonder..

if it would have really been this bad if ..the union at that time, at least attempted to sit down and discuss in the first place?

these ideas of refusing to even discuss anything just always seems to end up a mess..

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

The only thing I am going to say about R.A. before the court ordered forced paycut, he did approach our group and they basically wanted productivity from us...what they originally asked for and the flat out refusal to even discuss the issue and what we ended with, makes me wonder..

if it would have really been this bad if ..the union at that time, at least attempted to sit down and discuss in the first place?

these ideas of refusing to even discuss anything just always seems to end up a mess..

Being a DL employee, I wasn't there for any of that and since he's come to DL, I can't say firsthand, with my limited experience, that I have a problem with Mr. Anderson. He's got a lot on his plate, for sure.
I merely posted the article. As dapoes has shown, you can take from it what you will. But to call it a "myth" because you don't agree with it is just as much showing bias as embracing everything it says.

For the record: I also believe in sitting down and discussing things. I also understand that the Union/Mgt "dance" is political and involves strategizing. We've discussed this ad nauseum before, so I'm not going to go into it any more.
Have a great day.

 

[Dignity]

Being a DL employee, I wasn't there for any of that and since he's come to DL, I can't say firsthand, with my limited experience, that I have a problem with Mr. Anderson.

I liked the man moreso than others in that role..(and he is in the current role today, so I hope some are going to attempt to work with him..)

when he first approached our group the proposal was nothing near what we ended up with..it was focused more on productivity...the union at the time flat out refused to acknowledge anything at all for two full years(even though it was clear we were headed into bankruptcy..when they started talking bankruptcy..per my experience..when they say something may happen..it usually does..) they are generally always upfront with us, even if its brutal honesty, I have to give them that..

..but in the end after refusing to acknowledge anything the union turned around and allowed our contract to be gutted and put it in writing..that was the base..that original TA.. the courts imposed on us...

had someone anyone at least attempted to sit down and discuss something, I just wonder how differently it may have been in the end..maybe not much but who knows..that is why the attempt to sit down should always be considered..

I liked R.A. in his role prior to his leaving..my impression was he was fair..at that time.

I merely posted the article. As dapoes has shown, you can take from it what you will. But to call it a "myth" because you don't agree with it is just as much showing bias as embracing everything it says.

I do not recall writing anything that resembled stating it was a myth?

For the record: I also believe in sitting down and discussing things.

that is absolutely imperative to resolve any issue

I also understand that the Union/Mgt "dance" is political and involves strategizing.

still both parties need to sit down and discuss

We've discussed this ad nauseum before, so I'm not going to go into it any more.

discussions never end, especially on a forum.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

I do not recall writing anything that resembled stating it was a myth?

I was referring to dapoes' comment, not you, Dig.

 

[Dignity]

I was referring to dapoes' comment, not you, Dig.

I see..

when you responded I took "you dont agree" implying me, as my comments were quoted..

after reading your comment I see that "you dont agree" actually could mean "someone doesnt agree"

I just hope the type of management we have been use to over all these years is left behind in the dust and not brought over..regarding the poor labor relations aspect..

it is something the worlds largest airline does not need regarding tarnishing another good name..

that is the only reason why I suggest sitting down and resolving issues..because clearly it is shown how bad it can get when that does not happen..

 

[Airlinelifer]

Was that with the PFAA or the AFA?

 

[Dignity]

Was that with the PFAA or the AFA?

looking back we should have never left Teamsters but that's another story...

PFAA refused to meet with NWA management for nearly two years, but in the end agreed to gut our contract..they put it in TA1 that was flat out rejected..and when it hit the fan, they all took off, I believe the Contract Administrator ended up at UAL Management..

AFA arrives on the scene promising to guide us through the Bankruptcy process and we needed it...however ultimately the valuations were adjusted and basically TA1 was TA2 with some modification negotiated within a very short time..what they failed to do was fully explain our equity claim...because PFAA did not put us on the unsecured creditors committee..another disaster...TA2 was flat out rejected. and TA1 was imposed (outsourcing proposal off the table with TA1) PFAA probably felt it was necessary to gut our contract to prevent the outsourcing, but I personally feel that was a bluff to get the group to accept the paycuts that totally backfired..

..post 9-11 to me its crazy to even think about outsourcing Flight Attendants and removing US Crewmembers and those who have a legal right to work in the US..off a US Flag carrier..and working US bound Flights with new hires from a Foreign Country (but thats just my opinion) but non-the-less..they tried to do it..bluff or not.

TA3 included the buyout, the equity claim, the reinstatement of the Flight Attendants who were taken off line for honoring AMFA strike and just barely passed...but the difference today is the salaries have doubled because we have 9 Presidents, various Vice Presidents..Reps and an Executive Level we cannot even vote for having only 7600 Flight Attendants..

I personally feel their structure of accountability is very flawed..it does not work..thats another story..

to me, its just one big mess with both... but we have to protect Scope.

its was a learning lesson.