How to fix AA

[yoyodyne]

[background=rgb(255, 255, 51)]As former Continental Airlines CEO Gordon Bethune said in a recent speech at the Oklahoma State Chamber of Commerce annual meeting, in which he talked about his days as a mechanic in the Navy,

"I became a mechanic in the Navy and I learned something then that I have kept with me until today. When you're a mechanic on an airplane, you really don't have a lot of rank with all those big dog officers around. But they don't know how to fix the airplane. And if you treated me with less than the respect I thought you should, I'd just let you sit there for awhile. And when you say, 'Well, how come the airplane's not fixed?' I'd say, well, we've changed out the starter, we've checked out all the wires, but it still trips the breaker ...have you got any ideas? We'll call you when it's ready.'

So, do you know how much faster I could fix an airplane when I wanted to fix it, than when I didn't want to fix it? And that's the edge that your employees can give you -- if they want to do something. It's the same thing with your girlfriend. If you take your girlfriend for granted, she'll show you -- one way or another --that you probably shouldn't have done that."[/background]​

I guess all the airdales in pensacola now days are required to take courses in skuttlebutt and how to sound like a JT8D. I would like to see them spend a day or two in the engine room to see what real mechanics are all about. They must think the ship goes from point a to b with magic. I'm glad that when I saw carriers at sea, they always had cross hairs on them.

 

[AA-MRO.COM]

Ride the wave its to late for fixing the ship is sinking

 

[eolesen]

That statement would cause you to fail a class in leadership..

No, it just means I'm not a follower. I don't need a union or corp comm to tell me what I'm seeing for myself.

Both sides have blood on their hands. Neither set of raindrops feels responsible for the flood.

And at some point, both sides need to get over it and move on. It's time to stop blaming one side or the other, and figure out where the airline is going to be 24 months from now.

Until then, AA and its employees remain screwed.

 

[Jacobin777]

What garbage? You mean morals and ethics? Yes, I still believe in morals and ethics--definitely in short supply at Centreport.

Or, do you mean the part about the bonusses and the $20 million townhouse in London?
The part about the bonusses and the townhouse happen to be facts--though we didn't know about the townhouse in London until they were required to disclose it's existence to the bankruptcy court. It doesn't matter what you believe or not. Facts are facts.

No one owns that townhouse in London and IIRC, it will be sold.

Management didn't take ANY money from anyone and pocketed it themselves as you so incorrectly put it.

The union(s) APPROVED of AA's management stock-based compensation (via options). AA's stock did very well in 2006/2007 and management were able to excercise their stock options. This was also available to the union(s) who said "no thanks, we prefer cash".

You people want it both ways...hypocrites.

I do blame management for not really being "employee-friendly". They can (and should) improve in labor relations. IMHO, that will go a long way. I also blame them for dragging this pay/performance issue (as well as pension, insurance, etc.) problem since 2003. AA should have filed for BK and should have extracted all they needed to back in 2003 rather than dragging this soap opera on.

What you people miss however is that AA in a way did a favor by dragging this on as opposed to what UA, DL, NW, US did. They cut a lot and did it at one time. The total cuts, etc. you people are going to get is basically the same the other employees got at the other carriers.

Now lets see what Horton does. I think he deserves a chance. I do not believe he should make $ millions out of BK however.

Finally, I find it funny (quite sad actually) when the following happens:

Crandall CEO---->Unions---->"Crandall sux-we need someone new, we can live with anyone but Crandall".
Carty CEO-------->Unions---->"Carty sux-we need someone new, we can live with anyone but Carty".
Arpey CEO------->Unions---->"Arpey sux-we need someone new, we can live with anyone but Arpey".
Horton CEO------>Unions---->"Horton sux-we need someone new, we can live with anyone but Horton".
Parker (or anyone else) CEO------>Why will the unions change their views?

Now I do believe Carty's departure was proper. He at the very least should have informed everyone of his (and some others) pensions.

 

[jimntx]

Amazing how the truth can change depending upon who is "stating" the truth. The unions did not approve any bonus compensation plan. We had no say in it. And, IIRC, we didn't even know about it until the "Pull Together, Win Together" management hypocrites started collecting on it, and were required under Federal law to report the bonusses to the SEC.

The townhouse is/was owned by AMR corporation. Now, what would AMR need with a townhouse in Mayfair--the most fashionable section of London except for Buckingham Palace--except as a modest pied-a-terre for executives? I'm sure the alternative was for them to have to stay at the London equivalent of Motel 6. The only reason it is being sold is because the employees and the stockholders found out about it. And, if you had a shred of honesty, you would admit that.

I, too, fault the unions for part of this mess. In the concessions there should have been "me, too" clauses working both ways. If the employees take cuts, so does management--and no raises and bonusses for management except in the same percentage as employees. If management is awarded bonusses or raises, employees get same. Other airlines unions had such clauses, and it's amazing how rapidly management brought some of them back to profitability.

I spent 21 years in the oil business, and there is no more cut throat business than the oil business. However, in all my years in major industry, I have never seen a group of executives that so openly display their contempt for the front line employees as the executives at AMR.

I had a member of mid-management lie to me to my face recently. He knew he was lying. I knew he was lying. And, he knew that I knew. But, to admit the truth would be to admit that the company's "plan of reorganization" is nothing more than warmed-over cornerstone strategy which has been wildly unsuccessful in its first 4 years of existence. They are determined to prove that the only thing wrong with the strategy is that the employees are paid too much. And, cutting service to major cities (downgrading STL-DCA to AE, for instance) while continuing multiple 3/4-empty flights to other cities (DFW-ATL) is good business.

Judging from your attitude, your handle is appropriate. When do you plan to institute your Reign of Terror?

 

[signals]

From what I hear, if you want to save any airline, have only ONE Vice President instead of 20 or 30 of them. Talk about cutting the fat!

 

[eolesen]

So, you want the same guy to deal with pilots, order the coffee and sodas, negotiate your facilities leases, oversee your engineering, and meet with Fortune 500 companies you're trying to win business from?

Good luck finding someone to do that. Running an airline isn't like running a Denny's.

 

[nbmcg01]

Do you have to be at a VP level to do those things? No!

 

[bigjets]

I agree with E, you can't exspect to get a top quality executive if your not going to give him/her the pay and title, I suggest going to a successful airline and signing their superstars, the proven winners, not the ones who get bonus's for taking an airline into bankruptcy, they are the proven losers.

We might have top quality VP's, but we don't know for sure. It could have been Arpey has made the VP's all look bad or all the VP's have made Arpey look bad or a combination of both. The rank and file will never know for sure who is at fault for AA's downfall. But whatever the reason they were in charge when AA went bankrupt.

 

[Barfbag]

If you don't have an MBA you shouldn't be in a top level management position in any company.

Conversely if you have an MBA you wouldn't want to waste it in the airline business when others pay much more.

Recent MBA grads surveyed have the airlines dead last in career choices.

So how many MBAs are in the Veep Slots at AA ?

 

[jimntx]

Well, just like at a bank where you are either a teller or a Vice-President, the title may be indicative of nothing more than the holder is a favorite of the head cheese. A number of the jobs at both banks and AMR being done by "Vice-Presidents" could be done by any competent mid-level functionary. The title is not necessary to the execution of the job. It's just a way to pay the holder a lot more than the job actually calls for.

 

[DNTULSA]

If you don't have an MBA you shouldn't be in a top level management position in any company.

Conversely if you have an MBA you wouldn't want to waste it in the airline business when others pay much more.

Recent MBA grads surveyed have the airlines dead last in career choices.

So how many MBAs are in the Veep Slots at AA ?

Probably ones who were at the bottom of their graduating class!

 

[xUT]

If you don't have an MBA you shouldn't be in a top level management position in any company.

Conversely if you have an MBA you wouldn't want to waste it in the airline business when others pay much more.

Recent MBA grads surveyed have the airlines dead last in career choices.

So how many MBAs are in the Veep Slots at AA ?

Having an MBA doesn't mean much unless you have the background in the field.
An MBA in English does not make one an MBA in programming.

I had a co-worker that always 'talked' about his 'MBA' but couldn't do his J.O.B. and was 'released from his torture'.
B) xUT

 

[WorldTraveler]

AA used to have a very aggressive MBA recruitment program and they did acquire high quality people who were paid well and wanted to work in the airline industry which has a lot of characteristics that provide a good place to develop a career. Many were washed out quickly in search of the few who did survive and many of those who washed out went on to other places and made a lot more money. Companies recognize that MBAs have the potential to contribute alot but also need a certain amount of support in order to learn the company well. Many companies have mentoring programs for emerging leaders.

Other carriers had/have similar strategies w/ MBAs

 

[eolesen]

So how many MBAs are in the Veep Slots at AA ?

Are you drawing a distinction between people who start out on the front line, and get their MBA's in their 40's and 50's, and the kids who just stayed in school and got their MBA without working a day in the real world? There's a world of difference...

AA's MBA recruiting program targeted the latter. Freshly minted MBAs who had no clue about the business, and they were put into L4/L5 positions all over the place. As WT said, a bunch didn't last, because they started to realize that they didn't know what they didn't know... Others have done pretty well.

Ironically, AA's program *didn't* reward existing employees who received their MBA's while employed. I know several folks who worked for 2-4 years at AA straight out of college, quit, got their MBA, and immediately were recruited to come back at twice their previous salary.

Those who got their MBA's on their own time and stayed on payroll were lucky to see a 15% promotional increase assuming they were selected for a vacancy at a higher level.