I JUST WANT THE TRUTH

[FrequentFlierCA]

Bob, only you could say with a straight face that the pie has gotten bigger during two years of recession and massive losses at AMR. I realize you think the AA is using "fuzzy math" and such, but I just don't see how anyone could believe that AMR's pie has actually gotten bigger in recent years?

AMR continues to burn its cash pile and stopping that burn by keeping costs in check and getting operations into profit is the only way AA doesn't land in bankruptcy court (and your contract in the shredder).

 

[Runwaysticker]

To the Yes Voters: Don't decide on that YES until you catch up on upcoming events. Like AMR earnings reports. Hey don't take my word for it, check it out for yourself with this link to Zacks.

here is the link....click on this,

Zacks AMR Stock Earnings Estimates[/font

size="4"]The Co. wants to lower costs by convincing us about a doom and gloom future so they can compete. How about this doom and gloom with AMR 3rd Qtr. profits in the hundreds of millions?

And what will the AMR stock price be in a couple of months? A hell of a lot higher!
Mgmt bone-us money is based on the stock price. So if you think that your nice 6% TA bonus is fine now, just wait for the money to flow into the coffers of upper mgmt. Do your really think they would be satisfied with a measly 6% bonus? I say HELL NO! 6% is peanuts to them, and they will be making up for losses due to inflation too, all the while we lowly peasant grunt knuckle-dragger workers pay out the kazoo.[/size]



Check out the estimates for the 3rd Qtr of this year. Its about $230 million in net profit. That will pose a challenge to the bean-counters, as they try to hide some profits with special charges and write-downs for misc. items.

For this last Qtr ending on June 30, It may be easy for them to write-down $26 million, but a lot harder when there are hundreds of million in profits to hide.

The report date will probably be a couple of weeks away. but we will know for sure way before the TA voting begins.

At the ocean beach, you have an ebb tide and a flow tide. As they say, the tide is turning on AMR losses. Profits will start to flow, as all the analysts predict.

Let's hope that the flow tide has no smelly TA in it, like BP oil slick, nasty pollution.


For the Yes Voters out there, get your head out of the sand.
There is NO reason to take concessions when profits are in the near future.


Just shout out this slogan:
I am mad as hell, and am not going to take anymore BS...... Concession Stand Closed.

It is called a flood tide when tide is coming in not flow tide and yes vote no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[olderguyAMT]

It is called a flood tide when tide is coming in not flow tide and yes vote no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ebb and flow, ebb and flood.

Hey, we are both right.

http://onlinedictionary.datasegment.com/word/ebb+and+flow

Just vote NO.
Agreed.

When will ballots be mailed?

 

[Hopeful]

ebb and flow, ebb and flood.

Hey, we are both right.

http://onlinedictionary.datasegment.com/word/ebb+and+flow

Just vote NO.
Agreed.

When will ballots be mailed?

Ballots will be mailed out July 26 and the count will be August 24.
Plenty of time to scour through it and see how much of a negative impact it has on us all.

I hope that everyone truly understands that it is not just about the money.
The beginning of the end for the mechanic craft will be upon us.
For those of us currently employed with AA, this TA is just the beginning of end of retiree medical and pensions for new hires.
Because next contract they will end retiree medical for the over 50 crowd as well and look to freeze the pension.

For those of you who are crew chiefs and those that might want to be in the future....understand this......
YOUR SENIORITY WILL MEAN NOTHING ANYMORE.
Sure seniority will get you the job, but if management does not like you, they will move to remove you and keep doing so until they get the COMPANY YES UNION MEN they want in those positions.
Ask the TUL and DFW president why they would allow this article in the contract.

Whats in it for them?

And last but not least, TULSA will be sold or spun off....

 

[olderguyAMT]

Ballots will be mailed out July 26 and the count will be August 24.
Plenty of time to scour through it and see how much of a negative impact it has on us all.

I hope that everyone truly understands that it is not just about the money.
The beginning of the end for the mechanic craft will be upon us.
For those of us currently employed with AA, this TA is just the beginning of end of retiree medical and pensions for new hires.
Because next contract they will end retiree medical for the over 50 crowd as well and look to freeze the pension.

For those of you who are crew chiefs and those that might want to be in the future....understand this......
YOUR SENIORITY WILL MEAN NOTHING ANYMORE.
Sure seniority will get you the job, but if management does not like you, they will move to remove you and keep doing so until they get the COMPANY YES UNION MEN they want in those positions.
Ask the TUL and DFW president why they would allow this article in the contract.

Whats in it for them?

And last but not least, TULSA will be sold or spun off....

I will say that IMO the spin-off of AE will happen first, and will result in a windfall of mula for the Co.
BUT, will they really do it? Arpey likes to be in control of the mother-ship, and the baby-ships that feed the mother.

Sure the money will be great. The lack of control long term is a factor for the outright sale.... . Short term control can be put in the sale contract. The drop off would happen when the babies rebel and don't behave like the mother demands. Then the mother throws a temper tantrum and the babies get pissed. And the workers all would agree that what we would have here is a lack of communication!
But a spin-off of AE as a separate entitiy that has common stock sold off in an IPO, has another meaning. Plenty of new jobs for mgmt, truck loads of cash, public accountablility along with earnings reports and the like. SEC filings, analyst scrutiny, etc. Just like any other publicly traded company. Market timing is crucial for any IPO. Remember if you fail to plan, then plan to fail.

If you listen intently, you can almost hear the rushing noise of mgmt folks running to their planning sessions! Enough to wear a path into the hallway floor tiles? Remember to think of what we already know with this operation: Talk, Talk, Talk, then do the opposite, or really do nothing at all? But the real excitment comes from the planning not from the execution.
Lots of drool forming in puddles. Ha Ha.

 

[eolesen]

Spinning off Eagle and/or Overhaul requires one key element that doesn't appear to be there for either transaction --- an interested investor.

Step outside the AMR bubble for a moment.... Delta just sold off two of their three wholly owned regionals - Mesaba and Pinnacle. They've also been offering to sell Comair for three or four years.

All three had contract guarantees with DL for future flying, and fell under the same scope clause. The key difference between them is fleet mix.

Can you guess which one AMR Eagle has the most in common with?..... I'll give you a hint. It's the one with the most 50 seat RJ's...

When AMR IPO'd Sabre in 1986, the stock was closer to $20 and the economy was booming. That's hardly the environment we're in today.

The *only* way I'd see Eagle being a spin off possibility is if the various scope clauses are reigned in to allow them to own 70 & 90 seaters and operate them for other major carriers. Today, that's not possible, so nobody in their right mind would want to invest in a business model that's hamstrung by their largest customer.

 

[FWAAA]

DL got a whopping $83 million for Mesaba and Compass:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Delta-Air-Lines-Reaches-prnews-3345149285.html?x=0&.v=1

Even if a buyer could be found for American Eagle, the price would not be impressive. AA is about 10 years behind in selling/spinning off regional airlines. CO did it successfully with XJT and contributed the bulk of the stock to its pension plans at greatly inflated prices in the years following September 11, 2001 when it was not flush with cash yet had large pension contribution obligations.

 

[Hopeful]

Spinning off Eagle and/or Overhaul requires one key element that doesn't appear to be there for either transaction --- an interested investor.

True, but that could be because the ball is not in motion yet for a sale.
As for overhaul, I believe that if the TA is voted in, major changes are in store.
By the way, here's a little goody they added JUST IN CASE OF A SALE:

(l) Other Labor Protective Provisions In Substantial Asset Sale
In the event that, within any Twelve (12) month period, the Company transfers (by sale, lease, or other transaction) or otherwise disposes of facilities operated by the Company for the maintenance of its aircraft (“Aircraft Maintenance Facilities”) which, net of Aircraft
Maintenance Facilities purchased or otherwise added by the Company during the same 12 month period, constitute 20% or more of the value of the Aircraft Maintenance Facilities of the Company, to an entity or a group of entities acting in concert that is either (i) an air carrier or that will operate as an air carrier, or (ii) is a repair station under 14 CFR Part 145 (“Repair Station”) or that will operate as a Repair Station, following its acquisition of the transferred Aircraft Maintenance Facilities (any such entity or group the “Aircraft Maintenance Transferee; any such transaction, a “Substantial Aircraft Maintenance Transaction”):
1. The Company shall require the Transferee to proffer employment to that number of Employees on the master seniority list in strict seniority order (the "Transferring Employees") equivalent to the reduction by the Company in the number of Employees resulting from the Substantial Aircraft Maintenance Transaction. [The number of transferring employees shall be no fewer than the average monthly staffing over the prior twelve (12) months for the Aircraft Maintenance Facilities transferred to the Transferee in connection with the Substantial Aircraft Maintenance Transaction]; and
2. The Company shall not finally conclude a transaction under this subsection unless the Transferee agrees to integrate the Transferring Employees into the Transferee's seniority list pursuant to Sections 3. and 13. of the Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs.
(m) If the TWU believes that a violation of the provisions of sections (h) through (l) has occurred, an expedited arbitration may be invoked.

 

[The Goose]

True, but that could be because the ball is not in motion yet for a sale.
As for overhaul, I believe that if the TA is voted in, major changes are in store.
By the way, here's a little goody they added JUST IN CASE OF A SALE:

(l) Other Labor Protective Provisions In Substantial Asset Sale
In the event that, within any Twelve (12) month period, the Company transfers (by sale, lease, or other transaction) or otherwise disposes of facilities operated by the Company for the maintenance of its aircraft (“Aircraft Maintenance Facilities”) which, net of Aircraft
Maintenance Facilities purchased or otherwise added by the Company during the same 12 month period, constitute 20% or more of the value of the Aircraft Maintenance Facilities of the Company, to an entity or a group of entities acting in concert that is either (i) an air carrier or that will operate as an air carrier, or (ii) is a repair station under 14 CFR Part 145 (“Repair Station”) or that will operate as a Repair Station, following its acquisition of the transferred Aircraft Maintenance Facilities (any such entity or group the “Aircraft Maintenance Transferee; any such transaction, a “Substantial Aircraft Maintenance Transaction”):
1. The Company shall require the Transferee to proffer employment to that number of Employees on the master seniority list in strict seniority order (the "Transferring Employees") equivalent to the reduction by the Company in the number of Employees resulting from the Substantial Aircraft Maintenance Transaction. [The number of transferring employees shall be no fewer than the average monthly staffing over the prior twelve (12) months for the Aircraft Maintenance Facilities transferred to the Transferee in connection with the Substantial Aircraft Maintenance Transaction]; and
2. The Company shall not finally conclude a transaction under this subsection unless the Transferee agrees to integrate the Transferring Employees into the Transferee's seniority list pursuant to Sections 3. and 13. of the Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs.
(m) If the TWU believes that a violation of the provisions of sections (h) through (l) has occurred, an expedited arbitration may be invoked.

Regardless of the language, how much trouble does anyone believe it would be to have our "keepers" spit out one of those fix-alls, the "Letter of Agreement" - to fix a problem - ie, something unfavorable to the company?

Just as a reminder, these LOAs keep showing up - our darlings in the International who are supposed to be "protecting" us from the "mean old company" will agree to anything for a few pieces of silver, especially when the rank and file needn't approve said LOAs ...

 

[boston]

I'm a member of APFA and I've never seen anything draged out so long. I have no say in this, but I'd hope you get more than what I've read, don't give in. Ok I'd vote no if it was up to me. Your all worth to much!!!!

 

[Rogallo]

Your all worth to much!!!!

Not all of us...

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, only you could say with a straight face that the pie has gotten bigger during two years of recession and massive losses at AMR. I realize you think the AA is using "fuzzy math" and such, but I just don't see how anyone could believe that AMR's pie has actually gotten bigger in recent years?

AMR continues to burn its cash pile and stopping that burn by keeping costs in check and getting operations into profit is the only way AA doesn't land in bankruptcy court (and your contract in the shredder).

The facts are what they are. Those are the revenue figures, do you dispute them? Look them up on the 10K like I did.

The pie has gotten much bigger since 2003 and there are a lot fewer of us that have to be fed with it. The problem is the company keeps giving everyone else except labor a bigger piece of the pie and telling us we must accept less and less.

Per worker, even with the recession we bring in around $100k more a year than we did in 2001.

Revenue per Employee
2001 147046
2002 158941
2003 180912
2004 202443
2005 234298
2006 260542
2007 268245
2008 282592
2009 252433

I'd say we more than earned a decent raise, just because the company decides to piss it away faster than we bring it in doesnt mean that we should settle for less. You may just accept that, I dont. Recently they announced putting new seats in a slew of 737s and a $30 million dollar facelift on the New York Terminals. I'm tired of hearing about how they have money for everything except us. Sure they call them all investments, but they are ignoring the most important assetts any company can have-its workers.