I wil do what it takes to keep Ual from BK.


Oct 13, 2002
I feel the cost is way to high if we declare BK. I have posted on the yahoo board for quite some time, but this seems to be the place to post.
I am not happy with many of managements decisions since we lost Greenwald, but forcing them into BK would not do anyone any good.
My theory is to make the deal and work on fixing the problems later. We are working against the clock here.
If we let emotion control our decision, reality will eventually settle in and then we will wonder what we were thinking.
Let''s use good judgement and keep emotion out of this.
Here is a link about a U employee, who is on layoff.
Let''s not put ourselves in this type of position. We are all smarter than this.
Now if we knew Ual would get the concessions to keep out of BK, employees could have a win win senario if they bought shares on the open market to hedge the amount of concessions they will be giving back.
5,000 dollars would buy 2500 shares.
There are 25 million shares short. Can you imagine the stock price as shorts have to cover their position. It would cause an avalance of buying which would put the stock through the roof.
Employees could get back their concessions within a few weeks. Think about it.
If you think we will pass the deal, buy buy buy.
That's a nice proposal, but inflating the stock price back up doesn't do squat to address the core problems -- too much debt, and not enough revenue to offset a very high cost structure.

I maintain what I've said before -- it isn't a matter of if UAL will file Ch.11 anymore. It is simply a matter of when.

That's not a reflection on the rank and file, but it is an indictment of how the ESOP was executed, as well as how UAL management and the union leadership (both bear responsibility here) let UAL get to the point where revenue could no longer support labor contract increases.

Had UAL's unions truly been acting as owners, instead of focusing on one-upping the contract that DAL or AMR signed, we wouldn't be talking about this right now.
Your points are good, but the company needs to let the unions be partners instead of what Goodwin tried to shove down everyones' throat.
Creighton was treading water while we needed leadership, and now we are in a time crunch.
Revenues will not support wages right now and we must take the cuts until they can.
We all lose if Ual files. What we need is a new slim business model which can support these revenues. We must look in all areas to find out what we need to do.
I see the biggest hurddle being employees giving money to some of the same senior management who mismanaged our esop sacrifices.
How can we own over half a company with little input as to how it is run and how much redundant management we need. 41 VP's
The revenue cannot support this either.
They talk about how it takes a good wage to attract talent.
Combine 2 VP's wages and attract a great talent and get rid of the rest.
I could live with that.
Since 9/11 we have so many senior managers it paralyzed the company into inaction.
Pointing fingers will not make the situation any better. We need quick decisive action now and work out the details later.

You just touched on the very reason why an employee-owned airline does not work. Unions all have their own agenda, which is to do whatever they can to get the most for doing the least. And at an airline, where you have multiple unions in most cases, how often are you going to get all unions pulling on the same end of the rope? And unions, when they feel they've been wronged, will not hesitate to resort to job actions and working to rule to grind an airline's operation to a screetching halt in order to get management's attention. So passengers get used as pawns. That is not exactly acting like employee-owners. So I think it was extremely unrealistic to expect that the ESOP was going to work. All the ESOP did was basically stop the clock on labor costs and give UA Senior Mgmt and window of opportunity to grow the company during a booming economy. But they knew that window was going to close eventually.

Which leads us to our present position. Once again, the employees of this airline have a chance to fix the deep-rooted problems and turn this airline around without going into bankruptcy. The question is, will they give what is necessary in time to avoid having to file for Ch.11? Or, will the history of UA labor relations continue to prevail, and prevent agreements from being made in time to hold off bankruptcy? At best, we probably have about 4 weeks to get it done.