Airlinelifer
Senior
- Jan 10, 2008
- 333
- 142
The thread and avatar................................oh nevermind
Islam at the DNC Convention
- Thread starter delldude
- Start date
- Banned
- #17
There is none so blind as he who will not see...
This guy is going to throw at you anyone of the following verses.
The first verse:
[002:191] And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
Here is the answer:
All you need to do is put the verses in context and they are self explanatory(Pay attension to the text in blue):
[002:190] Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors.
[002:191] And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
[002:192] But if they cease, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
[002:193] And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression
The second verse:
[009:005] But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Here is the answer:
This verse refers to the pagans who failed to uphold the peace treaty with the Muslims, and also subsequently refers to anyone who does the same. The verse immediately before, which is 9:4 refers to the pagans who have upheld the treaty and did not break it, God commands the Muslims not to fight them:
[009:004] (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for God loveth the righteous.
The verse immediately after 9:5 says Muslims can infact harbour pagans who do not wish to fight, there is no mention that they must convert:
[009:006] If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of God; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.
The third verse:
[009:029] Fight those from among the people of the Book, who believe not in ALLAH, nor in the Last Day, nor hold as unlawful what ALLAH and HIS Messenger have declared to be unlawful, nor follow the true religion, until they pay the tax considering it a favour and acknowledge their subjection.
Here is the answer:
The above verse was revealed after the conquest of Mecca by the Muslims (Muslims had won the war against the pagans at this point and were in the process of establishing the Islamic laws over the land).
The verse states that the non-believers among the people of the book (Jews & Christians) who do not uphold their true religion and refuse to follow the new laws (Islamic Laws) of the land have to pay a tax (Jizya) or else they will be fought against.
It is essential to mention that Muslims themselves used to pay a tax called zakat (A pillar of Islam), of which a significant amount went straight to Bait el-mal (the treasury). It would be unfair for Muslims to contribute to the treasury and not the non-Muslims, don’t you think?
That tax was also put in place as an acknowledgement of the new rule of Islam over the land; those people had to accept that they are living under the rule of Muslims in the nation of Islam. Poor non-Muslims never had to pay this tax; in fact they were recipients of it in the form of charity.
Scholars differed among themselves regarding the last part of the verse ‘acknowledge their subjection’. Some said that they have to be humiliated while paying the tax, some said that paying the tax is in itself an acknowledgement of the subjection, and there are other views in between those two.
The fourth verse:
[005:051] O you who believe, do not take (certain) Jews and Christians as allies; these are allies of one another. Those among you who ally themselves with these belong with them. GOD does not guide the transgressors.
Here is the answer:
We have to put the verses in context again:
[005:051] O you who believe, do not take (certain) Jews and Christians as allies; these are allies of one another. Those among you who ally themselves with these belong with them. GOD does not guide the transgressors.
[005:052] You will see those who harbor doubt in their hearts hasten to join them, saying, "We fear lest we may be defeated." May GOD bring victory, or a command from Him, that causes them to regret their secret thoughts.
[005:053] The believers will then say, "Are these the same people who swore by GOD solemnly that they were with you?" Their works have been nullified; they are the losers.
These verses talk about believers (Muslims) who were not sure whether the Muslims will prevail in their struggle against the unbelievers or not; this is obvious from verse [005:052].
And as a result they took Jews and Christians as guardians or as backup just in case the Muslims lost. The Quran describes them as people with doubt or hypocrites (literally: people with disease in their hearts). They did not have full confidence in what they believed in, and consequently felt the need to have an escape plan in case of defeat.
Verse [005:051] states that Muslims should not make the Jews and Christians their guardians (over other Muslims), and not to entrust them with their lives as allies in war. The verse primarily refers to protection in time of war or hostility. It says not to take Jews and Christians as allies against whomever else we maybe fighting thinking that they will offer us protection in case we lost.
- Banned
- #18
Joker Joker
The bible says kill non-believers the evil isn't islam.?
Both religions are nuts, but this is where the bible says itThey should be killed. "If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you ... Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die."
NEW TITLE
BIBLICAL INTOLERANCE
I see so many religionists rant and rave about how Atheists are “not tolerant of believers and have no respect for their faith”. To non believers this claim is absurd. For intolerance of various religions is the foundation of Judaism, Christianity, Muslim and many other orthodox communities. Matter of fact, the Bible and Pentateuch commands religious intolerance in MANY verses, even to the point of KILLING people for their beliefs. Here then, are a few choice verses that show just how intolerant these religionists are of other believers and nonbelievers. We shall start with the two verses that helped to inflict one of the biggest mass murders in history, the Inquisition.
Woman with “familiar spirits” must be stoned to death. Leviticus 20:27
“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.” Exodus 22:18
Kill those who are not Christian or Jewish:
You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20
Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10
Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16
Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7
Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13
Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20
Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11
Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5
Ignorance is bliss. Christians should not practice free inquiry nor socialize with non Christians:
Don’t associate with non-Christians. Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10
Shun those who disagree with your religious views. Romans 16:17
Paul, knowing that their faith would crumble if subjected to free and critical inquiry, tells his followers to avoid philosophy. Colossians 2:8
Judge other religions for not following Christ:
Whoever denies “that Jesus is the Christ” is a liar and an anti-Christ. 1 John 2:22
Christians are “of God;” everyone else is wicked. 1 John 5:19
The non-Christian is “a deceiver and an anti-Christ” 2 John 1:7
Anyone who doesn’t share Paul’s beliefs has “an evil heart.” Hebrews 3:12
False Jews are members of “the synagogue of Satan.” Revelations 2:9, 3:9
10 months ago Report Abuse
The bible says kill non-believers the evil isn't islam.?
Both religions are nuts, but this is where the bible says itThey should be killed. "If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you ... Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die."
NEW TITLE
BIBLICAL INTOLERANCE
I see so many religionists rant and rave about how Atheists are “not tolerant of believers and have no respect for their faith”. To non believers this claim is absurd. For intolerance of various religions is the foundation of Judaism, Christianity, Muslim and many other orthodox communities. Matter of fact, the Bible and Pentateuch commands religious intolerance in MANY verses, even to the point of KILLING people for their beliefs. Here then, are a few choice verses that show just how intolerant these religionists are of other believers and nonbelievers. We shall start with the two verses that helped to inflict one of the biggest mass murders in history, the Inquisition.
Woman with “familiar spirits” must be stoned to death. Leviticus 20:27
“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.” Exodus 22:18
Kill those who are not Christian or Jewish:
You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20
Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10
Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16
Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7
Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13
Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20
Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11
Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5
Ignorance is bliss. Christians should not practice free inquiry nor socialize with non Christians:
Don’t associate with non-Christians. Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10
Shun those who disagree with your religious views. Romans 16:17
Paul, knowing that their faith would crumble if subjected to free and critical inquiry, tells his followers to avoid philosophy. Colossians 2:8
Judge other religions for not following Christ:
Whoever denies “that Jesus is the Christ” is a liar and an anti-Christ. 1 John 2:22
Christians are “of God;” everyone else is wicked. 1 John 5:19
The non-Christian is “a deceiver and an anti-Christ” 2 John 1:7
Anyone who doesn’t share Paul’s beliefs has “an evil heart.” Hebrews 3:12
False Jews are members of “the synagogue of Satan.” Revelations 2:9, 3:9
10 months ago Report Abuse
- Banned
- #19
Quran
ISLAM will provide soon a complete and fresh interpretation of the Holy Quran
that will convey its true and peaceful message.
See a few examples below:
Point 1: Does the Quran instruct Muslims to kill Non-Muslims?
Point 2: Does the Quran support anti-Semitism?
Point 3: Are we allowed to judge others or condemn them as "Infidels"?
Point 1: Does the Quran instruct Muslims to kill Non-Muslims?
Significance of the definite article "Al" (i.e., "the")
A friend of mine once told me that the Quran instructs Muslims to kill all Infidels. I agreed with him that violent interpretations of the Quran exist and permeate many of our Islamic books. My friend then quoted the following 3 verses to prove his point.
Quran: {The infidels are your sworn enemies Sura 4:101}
Quran {Prophet, make war on the infidels Sura 66: 9}
Quran {Never be a helper to the disbelievers Sura 28:86}
I thanked my friend for making this point as well as indicating these verses, and then responded as follows:
Comments:
Clearly, the above verses can incite much animosity and subsequent violence vis-a-vis all non-Muslims. Accepted literally - and uncritically - these verses lend themselves to the unjust persecution of otherwise innocent people, whose only crime is being non-Muslim. However, a pivotal matter of linguistic importance is often overlooked: the significance and usage of the definite article, "al" (i.e., "the"), which precedes the various disparaging Arabic words - kafirun, mushrikun - that describe non-believers in the Quran and which are often translated as "non-believers," "infidels," "idolaters," or "polytheists." Furthermore, in Arabic, the definite article is physically attached to the word it describes.
See below:
Quran: {The infidels are your sworn enemies Sura 4:101}
Quran {Prophet, make war on the infidels Sura 66: 9
Quran {Never be a helper to the disbelievers Sura 28:86}
The exact Arabic expression in these verses - indeed, in every verse that talks of the non-believer - is "Al-Kaferrin" or "Al-la-dhina Kafaru." The use of "Al-" or "Al-la-dhina" limits the verse (and thus commandment) to 1) a specific time and place in historyand 2) a specific group of people who were obstacles to the establishment of Islam in its nascent phase. It is these two factors that caused these verses to be revealed. Had the intentions of the Quran been to extend the application of these verses in perpetuity, it would have used the expression "Man Kafar," rather than "Al-Kafereen" or "Al-La-dhina Kafaru". The former, "Man Kafar," literally means any one who does not believe in God; while the latter, "Al-Kafereen," - the infidels - denotes a specific group of people: they who fought Prophet Mohamed in the early stages of Islam.
Moreover, the overriding principle which must ultimately guide our understanding of these verses is the constant Quranic reminder that good Muslims do not initiate violence against others so long as the latter do not provoke hostilities.
Quran 2:190 Fight in the cause of God those who start fighting you, but do not transgress limits (or start the attack); for God loveth not transgressors.
Indeed, according to other verses, even if a Muslim deemed someone an infidel, according to the Quran, he is still obligated to:
1. Behave with courtesy :
Consider, for instance, the following verse, which is supposed to instruct Muslims as to how they should deal with non-Muslims in the midst of hostilities (such as war): 9:6 And if any of the Idolatries (who are fighting you) seeks thy protection, grant him protection, so that he might [be able to] hear the word of God [from thee]; and thereupon convey him to a place where he can feel secure:
If Muslims are to behave with such clemency and magnanimity vis-a-vis the infidel during times of war and conflict, how much more should be expected of their interactions with non-Muslims during times of peace?
2. Respect his freedom of choice to be a "Disbeliever" - as this is a right bestowed upon humanity by God:
Quran 18:29 proclaims, "The truth is from your Lord": it is the free will of any person to believe (in God) or to be an Infidel (Un believer).
3. Even if a Muslim should be convinced that someone is a non-believer, still he must accept that his fate is in the hands of God alone, since no one human can condemn another - this must be left to the judgment of God.
Quran 88:25-26 for behold, unto (ONLY) Us (means God) will be their return, Then it will be for (ONLY) Us to Judge (humans).
22:17 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians (can mean an ancient religion or people with no specific religion), Christians, Magians, and Polytheists,- God will judge between them on the Day of Judgment: for God (alone) is witness of all things.
The significance of the definite article ("al") or the substantive pronoun ("al-la dhina") which confines the aforementioned verses to a specific time and place - that is, the past, history - as well as against a specific people (i.e., the polytheists of the Arabian peninsula), is also key to understanding those many other verses that are often cited to incite violence against non-Muslims:
1- The infidels are your sworn enemies Sura 4:101
2- Make war on The infidels who dwell around you Sura 9:123
3- When you meet The Infidels in the battlefield, strike off their heads Sura 47:4
4- Mohamed is Alla's apostale. Those who follow him are ruthless to The infidels Sura 48:29
5- Prophet, make war on The infidels Sura 66: 9
6- Never be a helper to The disbelievers Sura 28:86
7- Kill The disbelievers wherever we find them (Sura 2:191)
8- 9:29 [And] fight against those (Al-La-Zina) who - despite having been vouchsafed revelation [aforetime] [40] -do not [truly] believe either in God or the Last Day, and do not consider forbidden that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, [41] and do not follow the religion of truth [which God has enjoined upon them] [42] till they [agree to] pay the exemption tax with a willing hand, after having been humbled [in war]. [43]
9- 47:4 Therefore, when you meet The infidels (unbelievers), [4] smite their necks until you overcome them fully, and then tighten their bonds; [5] but thereafter [set them free,] either by an act of grace or against ransom, so that the burden of war may be lifted: [6]
Point 2: Does the Quran support anti-Semitism?
Someone once asked me if the Quran is anti-Semitic. He quoted the following verse to prove his point:
"Shall I point out to you something much worse than this by the treatment it received from Allah (The Jews), those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into monkeys and pigs, those who worshipped evil - these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path!" Qur'an 5:60.
I agreed with him that many promoted doctrinally based anti-Semitism based on this verse. Many Islamic fundamentalists, for instance, still refer to Jews as pigs and monkey, based primarily on this verse. That said, a faithful Muslim would be committing a grave sin should he resort to calling Jews, that is, the "Children of Israel," pigs and monkeys, for the following reasons:
1. Most of the Prophets mentioned in the Holy Quran are from the Children of Israel. These include: Moses, Aaron, Yusuf (Joseph), David, Solomon, Zachariah, Younis (Jonah). In fact, Jesus - the Messiah - was one of the Children of Israel. Therefore, condemning or even just insulting all Jews by calling them names is an offense, not just against modern day Jews but also all these prophets as well who, even though they were of Jewish descent, are nonetheless considered by Muslims to be the brothers of prophet Mohamed and must be strongly forbidden (Haram) and prohibited.
2. Condemning all modern-day Jews by the actions or mistakes of their forefathers is against the Quran which clearly states that no one is responsible for the mistakes of others:
6:164 Say: "Shall I seek for (my) Cherisher other than Allah, when He is the Cherisher of all things (that exist)? Every soul is responsible for of its acts: no bearer of burdens can bear of burdens can bear the burden of another. Your goal in the end is towards God. He will tell you the truth of the things wherein ye disputed."
Accordingly, and based on this verse, judging All Jews by the possible mistakes of their forefathers or because of historical conflicts between some Jewish tribes and the early Muslims is absolutely forbidden (Haram).
3. It is further important to note that, in the original Arabic, this Quranic verse does not even use the word "Jews," which was added later in parenthesis to English translations and Arabic commentaries of the Quran). The Quran was actually referring to another nation by saying "worse than this" as he was talking about the Israelites who did not follow Moses in the verses before this one.
2- In fact, this verse could be understood in a metaphoric manner as the expression "Monkey" is used metaphorically in Arabic to refer to people who imitate without thinking and the word "pigs" is used metaphorically too to describe those who refuse good principles and prefer the bad ones.
4. Many other verses in the Quran, far from condemning the Jews, reveal an exalted status for the Children of Israel:
Quran 2:47 "Children of Israel! Call to mind the favor which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all other nations"
5. Muslims should also bear in mind that the Quran clearly states that Jews and Christians, and others, will be accepted by God as long as they believe in his existence, his judgment, and perform good deeds (e.g., assisting the poor and orphaned).
2:62 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
(Note: in the above verse, the Quran says "their Lord" - not "your Lord" - which clearly indicates that God will accept Jews and Christians, based on their individual conceptions of God.)
Point 3: Are we allowed to judge others or condemn them as "Infidels"?
One of the issues that we must bring to the fore is the fact that the Quran forbids us from judging others. This has been expressed clearly in many verses.
Quran 88:25: For behold, unto Us will be their return,
Quran 88
Then it will be for (only) Us to call them to account.
By using the Arabic word "Inna" - which means "We" (i.e., God) - to begin 88:26 is a clear indication that it is ONLY God who can judge humans. To better comprehend why it is that humans are not capable (or allowed) to pass judgment against their fellow man, I offer the following analogy: Consider, for a moment, a long, stretching river - let's call it "The River of Truth." People are swimming at various points along this river. Now, let’s assume that absolute truth lay at the very end of the river, say, point 100. Based on this, we would assume that the person swimming alongside point 95 is closer to the Truth - and therefore better - than the person swimming alongside point 5.
However, what if the fact was that the closer person had started out at 100, and had actually drifted away from the truth by 5, whereas the further person had actually started at 0 and was now 5 closer to the Truth? While it would be impossible for us to know this - it is not impossible for God, for He would certainly know this about both persons, He would know that the person on 5 was striving hard (that is, performing Jihad) for Truth's sake. Based on this all too plausible scenario, it becomes obvious that in the eyes of God, the man on point 5 of the River of Truth is better than the person on point 95. It is for this very reason that the Quran has unequivocally stated that ONLY God can pass judgment on humans:
22:17 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians (can mean certain ancient religion or people with no specific religion), Christians, Magians, and Polytheists,- God will judge between them on the Day of Judgment: for God (alone) is witness of all things.
As finite humans we do not possess the foreknowledge of God and thus we are in no position to pass judgment over others.
Of course, we are capable of distinguishing between good and bad deeds - however, without the omniscience of God, we cannot judge this person or that as being either good or bad (as demonstrated earlier). If anyone had seen Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham) (PBUH) as he worshiped various planets and stars, as well as the moon and sun, before he at last came to worship the true God (as recorded in the Quran as well ancient Jewish scriptures), they would have considered him a "mushrik"—that is, an idolater or simply, an infidel. In fact, God Himself was pleased with Ibrahim since he was at least making a sincere effort to find the true God.
Quran 6:75 And thus We gave Abraham [his first] insight into [God's] mighty dominion over the heavens and the earth - and [this] to the end that he might become one of those who are inwardly sure.
Quran 6:76 Then, when the night overshadowed him with its darkness, he beheld a star, [and] he exclaimed, "This is my Sustainer!" -but when it went down, he said, "I love not the things that go down."
Quran 6:77 Then, when he beheld the moon rising, he said, "This is my Sustainer!"-but when it went down, he said, "Indeed, if my Sustainer guide me not. I will most certainly become one of the people who go astray!"
Quran 6:78 Then, when he beheld the sun rising, he said, "This is my Sustainer! This one is the greatest [of all]!" - but when it [too] went down, he exclaimed: "O my people! Behold, far be it from me to ascribe divinity, as you do, to aught beside God!
Quran 6:79 Behold, unto Him who brought into being the heavens and the earth have I turned my face, having turned away from all that is false; and I am not of those who ascribe divinity to aught beside Him."
The search for Truth - the desire to find the Divine - is in and of itself a great deed, even if the individual seeker never ascertains absolute Truth. The act itself possesses great intrinsic value and is demonstrative of a willing heart.
As God plainly reveals in his Holy Quran:
Quran: 29:69 And those who strive in Our paths to find us (God)),- We will certainly guide them to our Paths: For verily God is with those who do right.
From here, we should learn once and for all to never be judgmental against others but to leave judgment to God alone.
Saiidna Issa (Jesus) PBUH is recorded in the scriptures as saying, "Judge not lest ye be judged...and by the same measure you judge others by, so too will you be judged."
Imagine how you would feel if you judged someone for their apparently bad deeds when, all the while, that person was suffering from a mental illness that influenced their negative actions? If this happened, it would be you who had sinned - who had truly committed a bad deed - for you passed judgment without knowing all the facts. It is for this very reason that God said to Prophet Mohamed in his Holy Quran :
Quran 46:9 Say: "I am no bringer of new-fangled doctrine among the apostles, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. God is the ONLY one who can judge humans.
ISLAM will provide soon a complete and fresh interpretation of the Holy Quran
that will convey its true and peaceful message.
See a few examples below:
Point 1: Does the Quran instruct Muslims to kill Non-Muslims?
Point 2: Does the Quran support anti-Semitism?
Point 3: Are we allowed to judge others or condemn them as "Infidels"?
Point 1: Does the Quran instruct Muslims to kill Non-Muslims?
Significance of the definite article "Al" (i.e., "the")
A friend of mine once told me that the Quran instructs Muslims to kill all Infidels. I agreed with him that violent interpretations of the Quran exist and permeate many of our Islamic books. My friend then quoted the following 3 verses to prove his point.
Quran: {The infidels are your sworn enemies Sura 4:101}
Quran {Prophet, make war on the infidels Sura 66: 9}
Quran {Never be a helper to the disbelievers Sura 28:86}
I thanked my friend for making this point as well as indicating these verses, and then responded as follows:
Comments:
Clearly, the above verses can incite much animosity and subsequent violence vis-a-vis all non-Muslims. Accepted literally - and uncritically - these verses lend themselves to the unjust persecution of otherwise innocent people, whose only crime is being non-Muslim. However, a pivotal matter of linguistic importance is often overlooked: the significance and usage of the definite article, "al" (i.e., "the"), which precedes the various disparaging Arabic words - kafirun, mushrikun - that describe non-believers in the Quran and which are often translated as "non-believers," "infidels," "idolaters," or "polytheists." Furthermore, in Arabic, the definite article is physically attached to the word it describes.
See below:
Quran: {The infidels are your sworn enemies Sura 4:101}
Quran {Prophet, make war on the infidels Sura 66: 9
Quran {Never be a helper to the disbelievers Sura 28:86}
The exact Arabic expression in these verses - indeed, in every verse that talks of the non-believer - is "Al-Kaferrin" or "Al-la-dhina Kafaru." The use of "Al-" or "Al-la-dhina" limits the verse (and thus commandment) to 1) a specific time and place in historyand 2) a specific group of people who were obstacles to the establishment of Islam in its nascent phase. It is these two factors that caused these verses to be revealed. Had the intentions of the Quran been to extend the application of these verses in perpetuity, it would have used the expression "Man Kafar," rather than "Al-Kafereen" or "Al-La-dhina Kafaru". The former, "Man Kafar," literally means any one who does not believe in God; while the latter, "Al-Kafereen," - the infidels - denotes a specific group of people: they who fought Prophet Mohamed in the early stages of Islam.
Moreover, the overriding principle which must ultimately guide our understanding of these verses is the constant Quranic reminder that good Muslims do not initiate violence against others so long as the latter do not provoke hostilities.
Quran 2:190 Fight in the cause of God those who start fighting you, but do not transgress limits (or start the attack); for God loveth not transgressors.
Indeed, according to other verses, even if a Muslim deemed someone an infidel, according to the Quran, he is still obligated to:
1. Behave with courtesy :
Consider, for instance, the following verse, which is supposed to instruct Muslims as to how they should deal with non-Muslims in the midst of hostilities (such as war): 9:6 And if any of the Idolatries (who are fighting you) seeks thy protection, grant him protection, so that he might [be able to] hear the word of God [from thee]; and thereupon convey him to a place where he can feel secure:
If Muslims are to behave with such clemency and magnanimity vis-a-vis the infidel during times of war and conflict, how much more should be expected of their interactions with non-Muslims during times of peace?
2. Respect his freedom of choice to be a "Disbeliever" - as this is a right bestowed upon humanity by God:
Quran 18:29 proclaims, "The truth is from your Lord": it is the free will of any person to believe (in God) or to be an Infidel (Un believer).
3. Even if a Muslim should be convinced that someone is a non-believer, still he must accept that his fate is in the hands of God alone, since no one human can condemn another - this must be left to the judgment of God.
Quran 88:25-26 for behold, unto (ONLY) Us (means God) will be their return, Then it will be for (ONLY) Us to Judge (humans).
22:17 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians (can mean an ancient religion or people with no specific religion), Christians, Magians, and Polytheists,- God will judge between them on the Day of Judgment: for God (alone) is witness of all things.
The significance of the definite article ("al") or the substantive pronoun ("al-la dhina") which confines the aforementioned verses to a specific time and place - that is, the past, history - as well as against a specific people (i.e., the polytheists of the Arabian peninsula), is also key to understanding those many other verses that are often cited to incite violence against non-Muslims:
1- The infidels are your sworn enemies Sura 4:101
2- Make war on The infidels who dwell around you Sura 9:123
3- When you meet The Infidels in the battlefield, strike off their heads Sura 47:4
4- Mohamed is Alla's apostale. Those who follow him are ruthless to The infidels Sura 48:29
5- Prophet, make war on The infidels Sura 66: 9
6- Never be a helper to The disbelievers Sura 28:86
7- Kill The disbelievers wherever we find them (Sura 2:191)
8- 9:29 [And] fight against those (Al-La-Zina) who - despite having been vouchsafed revelation [aforetime] [40] -do not [truly] believe either in God or the Last Day, and do not consider forbidden that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, [41] and do not follow the religion of truth [which God has enjoined upon them] [42] till they [agree to] pay the exemption tax with a willing hand, after having been humbled [in war]. [43]
9- 47:4 Therefore, when you meet The infidels (unbelievers), [4] smite their necks until you overcome them fully, and then tighten their bonds; [5] but thereafter [set them free,] either by an act of grace or against ransom, so that the burden of war may be lifted: [6]
Point 2: Does the Quran support anti-Semitism?
Someone once asked me if the Quran is anti-Semitic. He quoted the following verse to prove his point:
"Shall I point out to you something much worse than this by the treatment it received from Allah (The Jews), those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into monkeys and pigs, those who worshipped evil - these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path!" Qur'an 5:60.
I agreed with him that many promoted doctrinally based anti-Semitism based on this verse. Many Islamic fundamentalists, for instance, still refer to Jews as pigs and monkey, based primarily on this verse. That said, a faithful Muslim would be committing a grave sin should he resort to calling Jews, that is, the "Children of Israel," pigs and monkeys, for the following reasons:
1. Most of the Prophets mentioned in the Holy Quran are from the Children of Israel. These include: Moses, Aaron, Yusuf (Joseph), David, Solomon, Zachariah, Younis (Jonah). In fact, Jesus - the Messiah - was one of the Children of Israel. Therefore, condemning or even just insulting all Jews by calling them names is an offense, not just against modern day Jews but also all these prophets as well who, even though they were of Jewish descent, are nonetheless considered by Muslims to be the brothers of prophet Mohamed and must be strongly forbidden (Haram) and prohibited.
2. Condemning all modern-day Jews by the actions or mistakes of their forefathers is against the Quran which clearly states that no one is responsible for the mistakes of others:
6:164 Say: "Shall I seek for (my) Cherisher other than Allah, when He is the Cherisher of all things (that exist)? Every soul is responsible for of its acts: no bearer of burdens can bear of burdens can bear the burden of another. Your goal in the end is towards God. He will tell you the truth of the things wherein ye disputed."
Accordingly, and based on this verse, judging All Jews by the possible mistakes of their forefathers or because of historical conflicts between some Jewish tribes and the early Muslims is absolutely forbidden (Haram).
3. It is further important to note that, in the original Arabic, this Quranic verse does not even use the word "Jews," which was added later in parenthesis to English translations and Arabic commentaries of the Quran). The Quran was actually referring to another nation by saying "worse than this" as he was talking about the Israelites who did not follow Moses in the verses before this one.
2- In fact, this verse could be understood in a metaphoric manner as the expression "Monkey" is used metaphorically in Arabic to refer to people who imitate without thinking and the word "pigs" is used metaphorically too to describe those who refuse good principles and prefer the bad ones.
4. Many other verses in the Quran, far from condemning the Jews, reveal an exalted status for the Children of Israel:
Quran 2:47 "Children of Israel! Call to mind the favor which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all other nations"
5. Muslims should also bear in mind that the Quran clearly states that Jews and Christians, and others, will be accepted by God as long as they believe in his existence, his judgment, and perform good deeds (e.g., assisting the poor and orphaned).
2:62 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
(Note: in the above verse, the Quran says "their Lord" - not "your Lord" - which clearly indicates that God will accept Jews and Christians, based on their individual conceptions of God.)
Point 3: Are we allowed to judge others or condemn them as "Infidels"?
One of the issues that we must bring to the fore is the fact that the Quran forbids us from judging others. This has been expressed clearly in many verses.
Quran 88:25: For behold, unto Us will be their return,
Quran 88
Then it will be for (only) Us to call them to account.By using the Arabic word "Inna" - which means "We" (i.e., God) - to begin 88:26 is a clear indication that it is ONLY God who can judge humans. To better comprehend why it is that humans are not capable (or allowed) to pass judgment against their fellow man, I offer the following analogy: Consider, for a moment, a long, stretching river - let's call it "The River of Truth." People are swimming at various points along this river. Now, let’s assume that absolute truth lay at the very end of the river, say, point 100. Based on this, we would assume that the person swimming alongside point 95 is closer to the Truth - and therefore better - than the person swimming alongside point 5.
However, what if the fact was that the closer person had started out at 100, and had actually drifted away from the truth by 5, whereas the further person had actually started at 0 and was now 5 closer to the Truth? While it would be impossible for us to know this - it is not impossible for God, for He would certainly know this about both persons, He would know that the person on 5 was striving hard (that is, performing Jihad) for Truth's sake. Based on this all too plausible scenario, it becomes obvious that in the eyes of God, the man on point 5 of the River of Truth is better than the person on point 95. It is for this very reason that the Quran has unequivocally stated that ONLY God can pass judgment on humans:
22:17 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians (can mean certain ancient religion or people with no specific religion), Christians, Magians, and Polytheists,- God will judge between them on the Day of Judgment: for God (alone) is witness of all things.
As finite humans we do not possess the foreknowledge of God and thus we are in no position to pass judgment over others.
Of course, we are capable of distinguishing between good and bad deeds - however, without the omniscience of God, we cannot judge this person or that as being either good or bad (as demonstrated earlier). If anyone had seen Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham) (PBUH) as he worshiped various planets and stars, as well as the moon and sun, before he at last came to worship the true God (as recorded in the Quran as well ancient Jewish scriptures), they would have considered him a "mushrik"—that is, an idolater or simply, an infidel. In fact, God Himself was pleased with Ibrahim since he was at least making a sincere effort to find the true God.
Quran 6:75 And thus We gave Abraham [his first] insight into [God's] mighty dominion over the heavens and the earth - and [this] to the end that he might become one of those who are inwardly sure.
Quran 6:76 Then, when the night overshadowed him with its darkness, he beheld a star, [and] he exclaimed, "This is my Sustainer!" -but when it went down, he said, "I love not the things that go down."
Quran 6:77 Then, when he beheld the moon rising, he said, "This is my Sustainer!"-but when it went down, he said, "Indeed, if my Sustainer guide me not. I will most certainly become one of the people who go astray!"
Quran 6:78 Then, when he beheld the sun rising, he said, "This is my Sustainer! This one is the greatest [of all]!" - but when it [too] went down, he exclaimed: "O my people! Behold, far be it from me to ascribe divinity, as you do, to aught beside God!
Quran 6:79 Behold, unto Him who brought into being the heavens and the earth have I turned my face, having turned away from all that is false; and I am not of those who ascribe divinity to aught beside Him."
The search for Truth - the desire to find the Divine - is in and of itself a great deed, even if the individual seeker never ascertains absolute Truth. The act itself possesses great intrinsic value and is demonstrative of a willing heart.
As God plainly reveals in his Holy Quran:
Quran: 29:69 And those who strive in Our paths to find us (God)),- We will certainly guide them to our Paths: For verily God is with those who do right.
From here, we should learn once and for all to never be judgmental against others but to leave judgment to God alone.
Saiidna Issa (Jesus) PBUH is recorded in the scriptures as saying, "Judge not lest ye be judged...and by the same measure you judge others by, so too will you be judged."
Imagine how you would feel if you judged someone for their apparently bad deeds when, all the while, that person was suffering from a mental illness that influenced their negative actions? If this happened, it would be you who had sinned - who had truly committed a bad deed - for you passed judgment without knowing all the facts. It is for this very reason that God said to Prophet Mohamed in his Holy Quran :
Quran 46:9 Say: "I am no bringer of new-fangled doctrine among the apostles, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. God is the ONLY one who can judge humans.
- Banned
- #21
United States
See also: Anti-abortion violence in the United States
Ku Klux Klan with a burning cross
The End. Victoriously slaying Catholic influence in the U.S. Illustration by Rev. Branford Clarke from Klansmen: Guardians of Liberty 1926 by Bishop Alma White published by the Pillar of Fire Church in Zarephath, NJ.
Beginning after the Civil War, members of the Protestant-led[65] Ku Klux Klan organization began engaging in arson, beatings, cross burning, destruction of property, lynching, murder, rape, tar-and-feathering, and whipping against African Americans, Jews, Catholics, and other social or ethnic minorities.
They were explicitly Christian terrorist in ideology, basing their beliefs on a "religious foundation" in Christianity.[66] The goals of the KKK included, from an early time on, an intent to "reestablish Protestant Christian values in America by any means possible," and believe that "Jesus was the first Klansman."[67] Their cross-burnings were conducted not only to intimidate targets, but to demonstrate their respect and reverence for Jesus Christ, and the lighting ritual was steeped in Christian symbolism, including the saying of prayers and singing of Christian hymns.[68] Many modern Klan organizations, such as the Knights Party, USA, continue to focus on the Christian supremacist message, asserting that there is a "war" on to destroy "western Christian civilization."
During the twentieth century, members of extremist groups such as the Army of God began executing attacks against abortion clinics and doctors across the United States.[69][70][71] A number of terrorist attacks were attributed to individuals and groups with ties to the Christian Identity and Christian Patriot movements, including the Lambs of Christ.[72] A group called Concerned Christians were deported from Israel on suspicion of planning to attack holy sites in Jerusalem at the end of 1999, believing that their deaths would "lead them to heaven."[73][74] The motive for anti-abortionist Scott Roeder murdering Wichita doctor George Tiller on May 31, 2009 was a belief that abortion is criminal and immoral, and that this belief went "hand in hand" with his religious beliefs.[75][76] The Centennial Olympic Park bombing in 1996, as well as subsequent attacks on an abortion clinic and a lesbian nightclub, were made by Eric Robert Rudolph; Michael Barkun, a professor at Syracuse University, considers Rudolph to likely fit the definition of a Christian terrorist, whereas James A. Aho, a professor at Idaho State University, argues instead that Rudolph was inspired only in part by religious considerations.[77]
Hutaree was a Christian militia group based in Adrian, Michigan. In 2010, after an FBI agent infiltrated the group, nine of its members were indicted by a federal grand jury in Detroit on charges of seditious conspiracy to use of improvised explosive devices, teaching the use of explosive materials, and possessing a firearm during a crime of violence.[78] On March 28, 2012, the conspiracy charges were dismissed.[79] Terrorism scholar Aref M. Al-Khattar has listed The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord, Defensive Action, The Freemen Community, and some "Christian militia" as groups that "can be placed under the category of far-right-wing terrorism" that "has a religious (Christian) component".[80]
[edit]Peru
See also: Anti-abortion violence in the United States
Ku Klux Klan with a burning cross
The End. Victoriously slaying Catholic influence in the U.S. Illustration by Rev. Branford Clarke from Klansmen: Guardians of Liberty 1926 by Bishop Alma White published by the Pillar of Fire Church in Zarephath, NJ.
Beginning after the Civil War, members of the Protestant-led[65] Ku Klux Klan organization began engaging in arson, beatings, cross burning, destruction of property, lynching, murder, rape, tar-and-feathering, and whipping against African Americans, Jews, Catholics, and other social or ethnic minorities.
They were explicitly Christian terrorist in ideology, basing their beliefs on a "religious foundation" in Christianity.[66] The goals of the KKK included, from an early time on, an intent to "reestablish Protestant Christian values in America by any means possible," and believe that "Jesus was the first Klansman."[67] Their cross-burnings were conducted not only to intimidate targets, but to demonstrate their respect and reverence for Jesus Christ, and the lighting ritual was steeped in Christian symbolism, including the saying of prayers and singing of Christian hymns.[68] Many modern Klan organizations, such as the Knights Party, USA, continue to focus on the Christian supremacist message, asserting that there is a "war" on to destroy "western Christian civilization."
During the twentieth century, members of extremist groups such as the Army of God began executing attacks against abortion clinics and doctors across the United States.[69][70][71] A number of terrorist attacks were attributed to individuals and groups with ties to the Christian Identity and Christian Patriot movements, including the Lambs of Christ.[72] A group called Concerned Christians were deported from Israel on suspicion of planning to attack holy sites in Jerusalem at the end of 1999, believing that their deaths would "lead them to heaven."[73][74] The motive for anti-abortionist Scott Roeder murdering Wichita doctor George Tiller on May 31, 2009 was a belief that abortion is criminal and immoral, and that this belief went "hand in hand" with his religious beliefs.[75][76] The Centennial Olympic Park bombing in 1996, as well as subsequent attacks on an abortion clinic and a lesbian nightclub, were made by Eric Robert Rudolph; Michael Barkun, a professor at Syracuse University, considers Rudolph to likely fit the definition of a Christian terrorist, whereas James A. Aho, a professor at Idaho State University, argues instead that Rudolph was inspired only in part by religious considerations.[77]
Hutaree was a Christian militia group based in Adrian, Michigan. In 2010, after an FBI agent infiltrated the group, nine of its members were indicted by a federal grand jury in Detroit on charges of seditious conspiracy to use of improvised explosive devices, teaching the use of explosive materials, and possessing a firearm during a crime of violence.[78] On March 28, 2012, the conspiracy charges were dismissed.[79] Terrorism scholar Aref M. Al-Khattar has listed The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord, Defensive Action, The Freemen Community, and some "Christian militia" as groups that "can be placed under the category of far-right-wing terrorism" that "has a religious (Christian) component".[80]
[edit]Peru
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #22
I'm supposed to be impressed?
I'd have to say if you could show me the Christians, KKK and whatever else you referenced is intent on establishing a caliphate and ruling the world under an Islamic theocracy, I'll kiss your butt under the clock at Kaufmanns at noon on the day of your liking.
I'd have to say if you could show me the Christians, KKK and whatever else you referenced is intent on establishing a caliphate and ruling the world under an Islamic theocracy, I'll kiss your butt under the clock at Kaufmanns at noon on the day of your liking.
- Banned
- #23
Impressed, no
Informed, hopeful... But, sadly, not very hopeful...
The usual non-argument.
Rather than deal with the truth that some religous fanatics use (and have throughout history...) distorted interpretations of thier own to justify heinous actions, and that some use distorted interpretations of others' faiths to justify fear, intolerance and hate, you resort to a straw man argument unrelated to anything I posted.
You enjoy living in fear, and spreading fear, hate and intolerance
Maybe some readers get it
Informed, hopeful... But, sadly, not very hopeful...
The usual non-argument.
Rather than deal with the truth that some religous fanatics use (and have throughout history...) distorted interpretations of thier own to justify heinous actions, and that some use distorted interpretations of others' faiths to justify fear, intolerance and hate, you resort to a straw man argument unrelated to anything I posted.
You enjoy living in fear, and spreading fear, hate and intolerance
Maybe some readers get it
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #24
I live not in fear.
I have respect for the destiny that Islam is forcing upon the world.
You have no clue to the outcome.
I have pity for your soul.
Dog Wonder
Veteran
'Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.'
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #26
Yes and at the same time have pity for ones soul.
Knotbuyinit
Veteran
- Dec 12, 2011
- 1,299
- 421
Knotbuyinit
Veteran
- Dec 12, 2011
- 1,299
- 421
Have any original thoughts of your own or are you just a talking head for Allah?
Where do I report the abuse? LOL
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #29
Allah Akbar Comrade!
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #30
Maybe some readers get it ....Allah Akbar Comrade!
Bob, how far you going to prove you're wrong?
Maybe we need the shrink pilot to check your shorts?
