JetBlue pilots choose ALPA
- Thread starter WorldTraveler
- Start date
No WT. The hooray is for NOW. The pilots at JB voted to unionize by a very overwhelming 71%. After 2 or 3 other failed attempts. They indeed deserve a huge hooray. NOT wait till after the contract is done. That will all be worked out. At least the pilot group is smart enough to unionize and gain more control of their futures. The question now is, what other groups will follow the pilots and unionize as well? Will the other groups see the writing on the wall as the pilots do? Only time will tell folks. But they do indeed deserve a big hooray for taking control of their futures and getting unionized.
I will also be the first to bite on the wager. I predict JB pilots will have a contract within 2.5 years after they are certified and start nego's.
Hopefully now the mechanics will see the light as well and look into and vote to get unionized at JB. Good luck to all the pilots, congrats, and look forward to the announcement soon of other groups following suit soon...
I will also be the first to bite on the wager. I predict JB pilots will have a contract within 2.5 years after they are certified and start nego's.
Hopefully now the mechanics will see the light as well and look into and vote to get unionized at JB. Good luck to all the pilots, congrats, and look forward to the announcement soon of other groups following suit soon...
OP
- Dec 5, 2003
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- #18
the reason why the representation campaign at B6 finally resulted in seating a union is because the company, quite frankly, underpaid its pilots for too long and failed to invest what was necessary in the operation - including sufficient staffing - to maintain even close to a decent operation. Pilots are absolutely impacted by being underpaid and short-staffed and the promise of sharing in the company's well-being means nothing if customers are left stranded and revenue never makes it into corporate coffers - while pilots cannot begin to figure out what they are supposed to fly.
This type of flying on a shoestring has gone on for years at B6 and the pilots said it is time for the company to grow up and act like a real carrier in terms of the way it operates.
Add in that the pilot shortage is pulling pilots away from B6 at a very high rate of speed precisely because of low pay and poor work rules and the company deserves what it got.
according to the DOT, B6's operational performance is about the worst in the large jet industry although depending on the metric, AA and UA were worse in certain categories in the most recent DOT report.
http://www.dot.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/2014AprilATCR.pdf
Several changes at the executive level didn't fix the problems and that is precisely when unions do have a real place to bring about industry standard change.
But the operational problems and the low pay won't change that B6's business model has been built around high growth - which creates operational problems if the airline is not reliable - and the lowest costs among the large jet scheduled US carriers.
B6 pilot pay is actually as good as or better than other carriers on an hourly basis - but for pilots, work rules plays a big part in how well final pay actually works. On comparable aircraft as a result of B6 mgmt.'s recent pay raises, B6 pilots are paid above AA/US pilots.
The notion that B6 might see unionization at other workgroups is not necessarily a given since they too are fairly well paid.
Unions like to point out the protections that come with a merger by having a union but DL employees suffered nothing relative to their NW peers who were unionized while WN/FL and US/HP pilots both had messy pilot integrations.
Most significantly, B6's entire business plan is predicated on low costs and it is far from clear how having to pony up more money to run a more reliable operation and better pilot pay protections - will affect B6's ability to not only maintain its current competitive strategies but allow B6 to continue to increase pilot pay.
Union talking heads infamously tout how they will force mgmt. to shell out money but more often than not, what actually is paid out falls far short of what labor thought they could obtain.
B6's margins are already pressured and increased competition to the Caribbean/Latin America by DL from JFK, NK and WN from Florida, and ULCCs elsewhere on B6's network make it far from certain that B6 mgmt. will pull out the checkbook for ALPA's demands since they know full well that B6 doesn't have the strategic ability to increase costs and maintain B6's competitive advantages.
Negotiating a first contract won't necessarily be a slam dunk at all. If anything, a new contract will provide B6 pilots with industry standard job protections that may or may not help in the event of a merger. And a merger might be a whole lot more likely if B6' costs start growing into the same area as the costs of the legacy carriers.
This type of flying on a shoestring has gone on for years at B6 and the pilots said it is time for the company to grow up and act like a real carrier in terms of the way it operates.
Add in that the pilot shortage is pulling pilots away from B6 at a very high rate of speed precisely because of low pay and poor work rules and the company deserves what it got.
according to the DOT, B6's operational performance is about the worst in the large jet industry although depending on the metric, AA and UA were worse in certain categories in the most recent DOT report.
http://www.dot.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/2014AprilATCR.pdf
Several changes at the executive level didn't fix the problems and that is precisely when unions do have a real place to bring about industry standard change.
But the operational problems and the low pay won't change that B6's business model has been built around high growth - which creates operational problems if the airline is not reliable - and the lowest costs among the large jet scheduled US carriers.
B6 pilot pay is actually as good as or better than other carriers on an hourly basis - but for pilots, work rules plays a big part in how well final pay actually works. On comparable aircraft as a result of B6 mgmt.'s recent pay raises, B6 pilots are paid above AA/US pilots.
The notion that B6 might see unionization at other workgroups is not necessarily a given since they too are fairly well paid.
Unions like to point out the protections that come with a merger by having a union but DL employees suffered nothing relative to their NW peers who were unionized while WN/FL and US/HP pilots both had messy pilot integrations.
Most significantly, B6's entire business plan is predicated on low costs and it is far from clear how having to pony up more money to run a more reliable operation and better pilot pay protections - will affect B6's ability to not only maintain its current competitive strategies but allow B6 to continue to increase pilot pay.
Union talking heads infamously tout how they will force mgmt. to shell out money but more often than not, what actually is paid out falls far short of what labor thought they could obtain.
B6's margins are already pressured and increased competition to the Caribbean/Latin America by DL from JFK, NK and WN from Florida, and ULCCs elsewhere on B6's network make it far from certain that B6 mgmt. will pull out the checkbook for ALPA's demands since they know full well that B6 doesn't have the strategic ability to increase costs and maintain B6's competitive advantages.
Negotiating a first contract won't necessarily be a slam dunk at all. If anything, a new contract will provide B6 pilots with industry standard job protections that may or may not help in the event of a merger. And a merger might be a whole lot more likely if B6' costs start growing into the same area as the costs of the legacy carriers.
Kev3188
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OP
- Dec 5, 2003
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- #20
pilot chat boards talk about pilots leaving B6 mostly for the big 4... that is part of why B6 had no choice but to raise pay which some saw as a means for mgmt. to win a union vote but the pilot shortage was hurting the company - just as it is the regional airlines.
1AA
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eolesen
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- Jul 23, 2003
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I don't think the vote had much to do with being underpaid or a shortage...
It seems to be more about uncertainty in where the company is headed, and how any number of pivots the company could make would put the pilots at a disadvantage.
Talk about increased codesharing and merger speculation didn't help. Neither did going from three year individual contracts to one year...
In other words, playing on fears won out over the previous pleas to trust management.
It seems to be more about uncertainty in where the company is headed, and how any number of pivots the company could make would put the pilots at a disadvantage.
Talk about increased codesharing and merger speculation didn't help. Neither did going from three year individual contracts to one year...
In other words, playing on fears won out over the previous pleas to trust management.
I also agree with you E. It was more geared around the future and the poss of merger or buy-out in future.
OP
- Dec 5, 2003
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- #25
which I noted in reply 6.
B6 is understaffed; their mgmt. has said so in discussions before. B6's cancellation profile during IROPs is more like the regional carriers than legacy carriers.
Again, DOT stats show that
Being continually short-staffed and having extra responsibilities thrown at pilots does effect career growth and security.
And whatever reasons B6 pilots might have used to justify a yes vote won't make the prospects of getting a contract any easier.
I'd still like to know if ALPA merger policy immediately goes into effect even if a contract is not in force.
B6 is understaffed; their mgmt. has said so in discussions before. B6's cancellation profile during IROPs is more like the regional carriers than legacy carriers.
Again, DOT stats show that
Being continually short-staffed and having extra responsibilities thrown at pilots does effect career growth and security.
And whatever reasons B6 pilots might have used to justify a yes vote won't make the prospects of getting a contract any easier.
I'd still like to know if ALPA merger policy immediately goes into effect even if a contract is not in force.
OP
- Dec 5, 2003
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- #27
thank you, sir.
So B6 pilots got a big chunk of what they want regardless of whether a contract is in place or not.
And if, say, B6 and AS decide that going it alone isn't working anymore, pilot integration would be fairly straight forward.
So B6 pilots got a big chunk of what they want regardless of whether a contract is in place or not.
And if, say, B6 and AS decide that going it alone isn't working anymore, pilot integration would be fairly straight forward.
Now the F/A's are pushing for a union representational vote at JB. I would be willing to bet they will vote as the pilots did and chose to be unionized. Now, how about the mechanics group? It looks like the pilots and F/A's are worried about consolidation in the future, should the mechanics at JB be worried about the same? I think so. All I have to say is do your homework before you just let the first union that comes to you be your representation. Good luck to the F/A's at JB on their campaign for unionization...
Congrats to the JB pilots for choosing to organize. Too bad they will send their money down the crapper in Herndon and get almost nothing in return. (They will have great aeromedical, and a nice shiny magazine; that's why I said "almost" nothing.) ALPA will throw them under the bus as necessary to keep the Herndon trough full. Sorry to see those ALPA leeches getting any JB pilot money.
OP
- Dec 5, 2003
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- #30
B6 mgmt. takes to the airwaves on the deal.... guess what? It's a threat to B6's culture
http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?play=1&video=3000268588
the video starts as a discussion of B6 earnings and Barger manages to turn the discussion to ALPA....
http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?play=1&video=3000268588
the video starts as a discussion of B6 earnings and Barger manages to turn the discussion to ALPA....
