Jetblue to San Diego

To put it even more simply, the argument against JetBlue serving PHX falls flat when you look at LAS. It''s basically the same situation there--dominated by WN and HP, with plenty of competing HP and CO nonstops from the NYC area--yet that didn''t stop JetBlue from going in.

I''m not saying that PHX is necessarily at the top of JetBlue''s list, but based on its existing route structure, it wouldn''t be out of character by any means. And I would certainly think it more likely than Tucson, but who knows.
 
I''m not saying there''s NOTHING in PHX for JBLU. But the opportunities are very limited, and those that are there are still rather low-yielding. Where would you connect the dots to, OAK? LGB? IAD? Those cities already have all the service they need from PHX, and none is a gold mine worth fighting for.

If JBLU really is such a world-beater, it should have numerous better places to serve.
 
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On 3/27/2003 9:32:30 AM AAG2000 wrote:

And I would certainly think it more likely than Tucson, but who knows.

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One thing in favor of TUS is that the airport authority, and the city government (and probably even Rep. Kolbe) are probably falling over themselves to entice jB to come here.
Daily nonstop service to the New York area would be a dream for all of them. Pre-9/11, CO had a Sat only EWR nonstop, but nothing since.
Didn't jB obtain financial incentives from some of the upstate NY cities they serve? TUS would be the same.
 
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On 3/27/2003 1:55:21 PM motnot wrote:

I''m not saying there''s NOTHING in PHX for JBLU. But the opportunities are very limited, and those that are there are still rather low-yielding. Where would you connect the dots to, OAK? LGB? IAD? Those cities already have all the service they need from PHX, and none is a gold mine worth fighting for.


If JBLU really is such a world-beater, it should have numerous better places to serve.

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Motnot,
This is called areas of expertise. As aviators, we would criticize the hell out of a marketing person interfering in our work duties and decisions. Maybe they know what the market will bear and what it will not. It isn''t my field of expertise so I am not qualified to second guess their thinking.
 
jbu320, I''m not an aviator or a marketing person, but I consider myself a fairly bright guy who tries hard to understand quite a bit about this industry.

Also, I''m not second-guessing anyone, I''m "first-guessing" them. JBLU has not announced any service to PHX.

What happened was someone here suggested PHX as a good city for JBLU. All I''m saying is that other than PHX-JFK, there''s nothing of real consequence for JBLU, so I would think JBLU has hotter irons in the fire, especially if it is the best thing since sliced bread, as the hype says.
 
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On 3/28/2003 1:30:02 AM motnot wrote:

jbu320, I''m not an aviator or a marketing person, but I consider myself a fairly bright guy who tries hard to understand quite a bit about this industry.


Also, I''m not second-guessing anyone, I''m "first-guessing" them. JBLU has not announced any service to PHX.


What happened was someone here suggested PHX as a good city for JBLU. All I''m saying is that other than PHX-JFK, there''s nothing of real consequence for JBLU, so I would think JBLU has hotter irons in the fire, especially if it is the best thing since sliced bread, as the hype says.

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motnot, your point is well taken. No offense intended. Just a perspective that has long been a point of contention between flight crews and marketing personnel. Much akin to the man on the front line and the ones in the planning tent not seeing the picture the same. I do agree with you regarding the PHX-JFK not being a high priority for JBLU.
 
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On 3/27/2003 9:40:34 PM mga707 wrote:

One thing in favor of TUS is that the airport authority, and the city government (and probably even Rep. Kolbe) are probably falling over themselves to entice jB to come here.

Daily nonstop service to the New York area would be a dream for all of them. Pre-9/11, CO had a Sat only EWR nonstop, but nothing since.

Didn't jB obtain financial incentives from some of the upstate NY cities they serve? TUS would be the same.

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That is a good point. I don't know if jB obtained actual financial incentives (a la AirTran's travel bank programs), but their service upstate and to BTV definitely won them valuable political brownie points in attempting to secure slots, etc. at JFK. If the TUS airport authority, city government, and/or chamber of commerce were willing to guarantee a certain amount of revenue for a NY nonstop, then I imagine it would be a no-lose proposition.

At the same time, I can tell you that jB has rapidly become the airline of choice among New Yorkers who vacation in Florida, so a nonstop to Tucson's spas, golf resorts, etc. would only enhance the airline's appeal to that demographic.
 
Just wanted to say thanks for those who commented on my comments regarding communication from the top of JB. Perhaps, they just haven''t said much recently, so all I remember are dated remarks, and I shouldn''t dig any deeper. SO I won''t

On the "PHX works because LAS works" topic, I say... hold on. LAS is much more dependent on tourism than PHX (not to say that tourism is not important in AZ, but with the casinos et al this should be obvious). And PHX is 3x bigger than LAS. Much like Florida or any leisure destination, JB can be successful at LAS because the point of origin of most travel is in NYC/Northeast for them (I am guessing). For PHX, they would need to compete more for PHX originating traffic to be successful than they do in LAS. Again, they could probably garner some PHX based traffic, but most will stick with LUV and AWA. Therefore, I would have to believe that PHX would be more marginal for JB than LAS is, because any service to PHX would be more dependent on PHX originating pax than LAS is.

Finally, adding LAS-JFK was part of the secure LGB slots situation. Maybe JB would have never opened LAS if it weren''t for all of the initial LGB short-haul service. You may notice they are down to 2 LGB-LAS trips, despite the fact that JB opened LAS only with LGB flights. Now that they are established and invested in LAS, LAS-JFK is a natural next step. PHX, OTOH, has no investment yet, and JB has better places to invest (like SAN and ATL).

Just my opinion.
 
I don''t know...personally, I would put PHX into the same leisure destination category as LAS and Florida. It may be less dependent on tourism than Vegas, but it''s still a very popular winter resort destination for New Yorkers. I would think that jB could do fairly well on NY-originating leisure traffic alone. Again, I''m not saying that it''s necessarily high on jB''s list, but there''s probably enough demand to support at least one daily round trip, like DEN, SLC, and SEA.
 
I''m looking on Expedia and I see the lowest roundtrip fare PHX-JFK during the summer months is only $291. Makes me think that if jetBlue plans to make SAN work with $255ish, then perhaps PHX could, too. However, this is obviously too amateur an examination of the characteristics of both markets to come to any type of conclusion. Personally, I think B6 could make PHX work, but I agree there are probably a bunch of better markets to pursue.

On another (previous) note, there is absolutely no reason why B6''s A320s should have trouble running in and out of SAN. UA and US have been doing transcons for years with every version of the A320.

-Aaron G.
 
Hopefully this is not a total deviation from the topic. The rumblings are still very much alive for initiating service into Chicago and Boston this year. No specifics or information as to which airports served and from where. Apparently it is not a dead issue. Makes more sense to me at this point than PHX - anywhere.