You bet there is twinstar! Wouldn't have wanted to be in the pilot's shoes though. You guessed right Mag, it was either limp home to put it in the pines. Seems like one of those 'Damned if you do, damned if you don't' situations. Gives me the heeby-jeebys thinking about it. :unsure:
Jetbox Down?
- Thread starter Winnie
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You happen to know who the operator was and possibly the pilot? I have two friends flying up in Northern Alberta at the moment. PM me if you wish. THanks
AR
You happen to know who the operator was and possibly the pilot? I have two friends flying up in Northern Alberta at the moment. PM me if you wish. THanks
AR
Ryan ------- that type of incident may come to "visit" you one day, so here's a suggestion. Get the M & O Manual and read what the tolerances are for a bump, crease or tear of the blade skin on your particular a/c. Then look at a cut-away profile of that given blade. THEN, if and when that day should ever arrive, you can make that DECISION with KNOWLEDGE and converse with engineering on a phone with KNOWLEDGE........because you might just be ASKED to fly that a/c to someplace and "the buck stops with you" as to whether you are going to do that. Always remember that "you the boss" of that machinery at ALL times untill releived of that responsibility. In otherwards, ask engineers questions, read the M & O Manual and "know thy a/c like the back of your hand" because one of these days you may be out in the middle of nowhere and have a decison to make and can't get help or technical knowledge from anyone because the damn cell phone doesn't have coverage, etc. If in ANY doubt whatsoever, leave the "m.f'er" on terre firma. They make helicopters everyday....your parts are all back-ordered. 😀
twinstar_ca
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well said, cap... 
Ryan -----also follow that advice ALL the time..........because I didn't follow my own advice ALL of the time on various things ........THAT's also called "experience". So be better than me and then you won't need the "McPherson seatbelt". 😀
Local news reporting that moose hunters found a piper cub in the area of Bayfield Inlet, north of Parry Sound. Apparently it has been missing since 1997. Search and rescue looked for 9 days. Human remains were found in the wreckage.
I haven't been able to pull it up on any newswires yet.
Not in the same region where winnie's aircraft in question is though.
I haven't been able to pull it up on any newswires yet.
Not in the same region where winnie's aircraft in question is though.
my ontario geography has taken a nosedive lately, but here' something that might be related, or not....
http://www.parrysoundnorthstar.com/story--...an_survives.htm
http://www.parrysoundnorthstar.com/story--...an_survives.htm
highbladedown
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CAP.....
Just an FYI only.
In addition to your technical observations there is also a regulatory one that also must be taken into consideration. It is found in CARS 625 Appendix G and lays out the requirement of an “Inspection after Abnormal Occurrences†where blade strikes are clearly defined. In addition to the requirements set out in the M&O and the procedures described in Appendix G are intended to supplement manufacturer's recommendations. It also defines the opinion of the captain if the A/C is airworthy or not airworthy accompanied by required log entries. If no AME is available, the captain of the aircraft can conduct the inspection. In this case, the inspection will of necessity be limited to those items, which do not require a maintenance release (i.e. does not involve disassembly). If in the opinion of the captain, the aircraft is unairworthy, or if the severity of the incident was such that even after a satisfactory preliminary inspection its airworthiness is in doubt, then the aircraft shall be inspected by an AME, and a maintenance release signed, before further flight.
hbd
Just an FYI only.
In addition to your technical observations there is also a regulatory one that also must be taken into consideration. It is found in CARS 625 Appendix G and lays out the requirement of an “Inspection after Abnormal Occurrences†where blade strikes are clearly defined. In addition to the requirements set out in the M&O and the procedures described in Appendix G are intended to supplement manufacturer's recommendations. It also defines the opinion of the captain if the A/C is airworthy or not airworthy accompanied by required log entries. If no AME is available, the captain of the aircraft can conduct the inspection. In this case, the inspection will of necessity be limited to those items, which do not require a maintenance release (i.e. does not involve disassembly). If in the opinion of the captain, the aircraft is unairworthy, or if the severity of the incident was such that even after a satisfactory preliminary inspection its airworthiness is in doubt, then the aircraft shall be inspected by an AME, and a maintenance release signed, before further flight.
hbd
highbladedown -------Understood. I think though, that there comes a point where you might not have that M & O Manual knowledge about a certain happening and it's tolerances and the brain has to "kick-in" based on your knowledge of that a/c and helicopters in general. That's one of the reasons that engineers will grab the horizontal stabs while the a/c is at high idle and feel for certain vibrations, or feel the rudder pedals in flight and perhaps the cyclic or door post........they are letting the a/c "talk to them". Not EVERYTHING is in that M & O Manual or covered by some MOT rule. That applies equally to pilots.
Everything cap said and more....reminds me of the time I was flown a million mile from no where to do an inspection...find a t/r blade with a gash in the leading edge...find out it has been flying like that for over 200 hours and then I get crapped on for saying I wouldn't fly it but all of a sudden I am the bad guy for there is a must flight the next day and if I had looked the other way everyone involved would be much happier....go figure :angry:
highbladedown
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CAP....
All I was doing was supporting the previous point you were trying to make regarding pilots responsibility. Only an FYI as to other documentation that needs to be considered and how we all are responsible in one-way or another. That is why we come to forums like this to share knowledge and personal experiences such as pottsy's T/R situation, but I doubt it happened at Mid-West.
Just a suggestion only, if you are the pilot type then spend as much time with ACA’d AMEs’ outside of CARS 625 Appendix “A†elementary task training to learn what you can, ask questions. Ask to review the company MCM/MPM where it may apply to pilots related airworthyness defects, most TC approved MCM’s and MPM’s have a sections to cover contact with a DOM or acting DOM in the event the pilot has to make a call relating to any airworthiness situations. There is more information available to us then there once was when I started 30 some years ago, probably the same for Pottsy and maybe even yourself. That way if you are miles away and you have no cell coverage it just might help you make your decision.
Hey Pottsy, T/R problem must have been long before deferred defect referrals. I know moons ago I came out the territories in a 47J2A with blade tape holding the upper and lower skins 3†in from tip cap together on a M/R blade that really leaky bags!! Flew from the territories to Dryden……..then we parked the A/C and took Scare Canada, I felt safer in the 47. Cept they had rum!!!!!
Keep the corners turned up.
Hbd
P.S.
Pottsy, I heard through the rumor mill that TCP has closed Winnipeg and Roderick will be retired at years end.
All I was doing was supporting the previous point you were trying to make regarding pilots responsibility. Only an FYI as to other documentation that needs to be considered and how we all are responsible in one-way or another. That is why we come to forums like this to share knowledge and personal experiences such as pottsy's T/R situation, but I doubt it happened at Mid-West.
Just a suggestion only, if you are the pilot type then spend as much time with ACA’d AMEs’ outside of CARS 625 Appendix “A†elementary task training to learn what you can, ask questions. Ask to review the company MCM/MPM where it may apply to pilots related airworthyness defects, most TC approved MCM’s and MPM’s have a sections to cover contact with a DOM or acting DOM in the event the pilot has to make a call relating to any airworthiness situations. There is more information available to us then there once was when I started 30 some years ago, probably the same for Pottsy and maybe even yourself. That way if you are miles away and you have no cell coverage it just might help you make your decision.
Hey Pottsy, T/R problem must have been long before deferred defect referrals. I know moons ago I came out the territories in a 47J2A with blade tape holding the upper and lower skins 3†in from tip cap together on a M/R blade that really leaky bags!! Flew from the territories to Dryden……..then we parked the A/C and took Scare Canada, I felt safer in the 47. Cept they had rum!!!!!
Keep the corners turned up.
Hbd
P.S.
Pottsy, I heard through the rumor mill that TCP has closed Winnipeg and Roderick will be retired at years end.
highbladedown ---- no offense taken and none was meant. I recognize the information you stated and agree wholeheartedly. My point was that IF that information is not available onsite and IF you don't remember tolerances, then "plant the mother" on the ground and use the ELT if you have to.
As far I personally am concerned, I can say quite easily that a good honest 65% of what I know about various a/c I have learned from real good, experenced engineers........and some of that didn't come out of any written manual, A/F or Engine course. That's why eons ago they put a "greener' with some old, experienced, engineer and the learning began. I'm here today because of them and they're still teaching me too. 😀
As far I personally am concerned, I can say quite easily that a good honest 65% of what I know about various a/c I have learned from real good, experenced engineers........and some of that didn't come out of any written manual, A/F or Engine course. That's why eons ago they put a "greener' with some old, experienced, engineer and the learning began. I'm here today because of them and they're still teaching me too. 😀
Hey there HBD...the rumors are true...TCP is all closed up in Winnipeg...3 jetboxes that are left are in TO...Roderic is on till the end of the year.....the t/r incident happened in the early 90's...you can do the math...for the names involved PM me....by the way are your initials KH....pottsy 😉 😀
highbladedown
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Hey DGP.....
Yup, correct on the initials. Going to be quite a shock for Roderick after so many years. I know it was for me........
Yup, correct on the initials. Going to be quite a shock for Roderick after so many years. I know it was for me........
