JFK preparing for A300 retirement.

[AA767JET]

Looks to me like the "tactics" being used are really just a "by the book" RIF.

Your right it is a RIF but the way the economy is and the scarce job market is reason more for AA to offer VBR's to people that want to go, there are other ways to do things.

 

[The Goose]

Your right it is a RIF but the way the economy is and the scarce job market is reason more for AA to offer VBR's to people that want to go, there are other ways to do things.

I can't really see the company doing anyone but the irreplaceable executives a favor in this economic environment. They don't have to and they know it.

 

[Bob Owens]

One thing that I've learned in this industry is never think that you are safe and when they tell you there's a big RIF coming dont panic. If anyone cares to recall the company announced a big RIF for last fall that never materialized.

The VBR makes sense because if you dont grant the VBRs you keep an older worker for maybe two or three more years, in the meantime you cut loose a younger worker that you could have for 20 years, and once you cut that younger, aready trained worker, the odds are he will not return.

I think the airlines are finally starting to realize that qualified aplicants aren't lining up at the door anymore nor do RIFFED workers sit back waiting for the airlines to call them back-they move on to other industries that arent as demanding and in many cases pay better.

So on the one hand the company doesnt want to grant too many VBRs because they may end up with a labor shortage but if they lay off younger workers they will likely face a more severe shortage a few years down the road when they may want to expand as the economy recovers.

I say let as many go who are willing to take the VBR, the younger worker would be more inclined to work OT as needed, thus mitigating future labor shortages.

 

[TWU informer]

I dont hear management talking much about a big RIF, but I do hear them talking about a retirement package right after labor day.

 

[AA767JET]

One thing that I've learned in this industry is never think that you are safe and when they tell you there's a big RIF coming dont panic. If anyone cares to recall the company announced a big RIF for last fall that never materialized.

The VBR makes sense because if you dont grant the VBRs you keep an older worker for maybe two or three more years, in the meantime you cut loose a younger worker that you could have for 20 years, and once you cut that younger, aready trained worker, the odds are he will not return.

I think the airlines are finally starting to realize that qualified aplicants aren't lining up at the door anymore nor do RIFFED workers sit back waiting for the airlines to call them back-they move on to other industries that arent as demanding and in many cases pay better.

So on the one hand the company doesnt want to grant too many VBRs because they may end up with a labor shortage but if they lay off younger workers they will likely face a more severe shortage a few years down the road when they may want to expand as the economy recovers.

I say let as many go who are willing to take the VBR, the younger worker would be more inclined to work OT as needed, thus mitigating future labor shortages.

Perfectly put Bob, you are a very smart man A+++ Amen to that....

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

JFK will get a 757 B-CK from DFW


How many persons to do a 757 B-Ck
How many persons to do an A300-BCK

 

[lpbrian]

For a five day check on a 757, 25-30 including avionics, QA, and CC's.

 

[lpbrian]

For an A-300, dunno, probably a LOT less.

 

[1AA]

For an A-300, dunno, probably a LOT less.

A 300 B-Check runs two shifts and more QA inspectors than a narrow body. First shift is the majority of the workers and work performed. The next shift is the clean up crew and they usually do the run up and deliver the aircraft to the gate.
Unless AA decided to do it with less, not surprising.

 

[777 fixer]

JFK will get a 757 B-CK from DFW


How many persons to do a 757 B-Ck
How many persons to do an A300-BCK

Glad to hear they got something. Makes sense with the international configured 757's flying to Europe out of JFK.

 

[Bob Owens]

For an A-300, dunno, probably a LOT less.

A-300 B-ck -around 45 guys. Widebodies use more guys. Thats one of the points I've been trying to make when AA and some in the TWU try to compare our headcount to SWA.

Recently the company has also been comparing our present headcount to what it was in 1992, when we had the same number of aircraft, what they dont mention is that the ratio of widebody to narrowbody has reveresed and we have more widebodies now than we did then. Widebodies use more heads.

In 2005 the company had nearly 300 names on the recall list for NY1(EWR,LGA,JFK) from what I've heard only one in 20 accepted recall. When I spoke to a few who did come back none of them said settle for less in order to save jobs. So in other words 95% found something better.

With a 95% rate of permanent loss furloughs of trained workers is much less appealing. The costs of retraining and the lag in returning to full productivity is costly. I would estimate that it costs the company at least $50,000 to train a line mechanic. Figure just the Gen-Fams alone costs around $20k. Then all the other stuff, OSHA, Equipment, Safety,CBT etc etc, it adds up quickly. Then when you take in a new hire thats unfamiliar with the proceedures that also has a cost factor. You have to figure that the first time you do a job it takes twice as long as it does the next time you do it.

The way I see it once the economy recovers there will be a serious shortage of mechanics. Only one in twenty came back, more than half the A&P schools in the country closed their doors over the last five years, and competing parts of the industry pay either more or just as much as the airlines are offering, never mind the fact that competing industries offer more pay, better benifits and more security. The likelyhood of getting young blood is slim. The average age in our Local is 46 years old. Too old to leave, but old enough to no longer be intimidated by threats either.

If the offer thats on the table goes through the guys in high cost areas are screwed. By 2011 we will be at the bottom of the industry in everything-pay, benifits, vacation, sick time, holiday pay. Behind even non-union workers. We will not be lagging by pennies, but tens of thousands of dollars a year. We will be at the bottom in an industry that has as a whole already sunk to historic lows as far as compensation-lower than whale shyte.

We will have few choices. Either pack it in, leave and try and start over as we are approaching our retirement planning years, or screw up the operation so bad that they have to move all the work to low cost areas, even if it costs them more to do so, we would have to make it too costly for them to keep us here, this would create openings so we could transfer to low cost areas and improve our situation that way, or screw up the operation so bad that they abandon those markets entirely (and search for all those premium dollar passengers that fly from Tulsa to DFW) and apply to the carriers that move in to fill the void.

The offer thats on the table is so bad we really wouldnt have a future with American Airlines in a high cost area. Thats my personal opinion anyhow.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

We will have few choices. Either pack it in, leave and try and start over as we are approaching our retirement planning years, or screw up the operation so bad that they have to move all the work to low cost areas, even if it costs them more to do so, we would have to make it too costly for them to keep us here, this would create openings so we could transfer to low cost areas and improve our situation that way, or screw up the operation so bad that they abandon those markets entirely (and search for all those premium dollar passengers that fly from Tulsa to DFW) and apply to the carriers that move in to fill the void.

:bleh: :bleh:

 

[Joe Patroni]

Bob, once again you are correct. As one who has turned down the two recalls that I had back to AA, I could not bring myself to face yet another paycut or uncertain future at the hands of AA or any other airline.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ---- Sad, but true! Too many good AMT's are voting with their feet and getting out of this Industry all together!----- Or retiring! 🙄

 

[Bob Owens]

<_< ---- Sad, but true! Too many good AMT's are voting with their feet and getting out of this Industry all together!----- Or retiring! 🙄

And once they make the jump out they wont return. Of those who left none of the ones I've spoken to miss working shifts, weekends and Holidays.

What we are seeing is guys making this a part time job despite their full time status. The attitude isnt the same so aircraft that probably would get fixed under normal circumstances or at places like SWA (where the mechanics are well compensated) instead sit on the ground. The company may think they are saving on wages but they are keeping more heads on payroll and not getting what they could out of the guys because they dont have their heart in it anymore. The guys want to work, they love fixing airplanes but they are just so demoralized because of the compensation that they are more concerned with watching the clock than fixing airplanes.

I've heard management say that if we work harder they will get us more work. I've heard management request that we committ to making AA #1 in performance as they pay us #5 wage rates. We've lost over 40% of our compensation yet they want 110% effort, it just isnt going to happen. #5!!!!!!! All the airlines face challenges so why should we let AA off the hook and jump through hoops for #5 wage rates? It aint gonna happen.

When they announced that the A-300 was going away some speculated that AA was going to dump Hangar 10. I said that we didnt get the hangar because we got the B-ck, we got the B-ck because we had the hangar. Routing puts the 757L in New York, so thats the replacement.