Keeping an Eye on Your Pension Funds

[WingNaPrayer]

They have been taking some heavy losses. Some employees are screaming about loosing as much as $10,000.00 in less than a month. Morgan offers garbage for items to invest in. July was wicked but with three more rounds of bonuses paid to the Dip-Stik 5 in July, it was to be expected.

 

[The Goose]

They have been taking some heavy losses. Some employees are screaming about loosing as much as $10,000.00 in less than a month. Morgan offers garbage for items to invest in. July was wicked but with three more rounds of bonuses paid to the Dip-Stik 5 in July, it was to be expected.

One thing we all should remember is AMR doesn't set these 401s up for the employees' benefit - there's plenty of money flowing into the company from the business directed to Morgan Stanley, i. e., the industry standard kickbacks (I'm quite certain they have another, less sinister name).

Also, let's not forget that one of the AMR directors, Philip Purcel, was cashiered from Morgan (he was the CEO) after there were allegations of wrongdoing (accompanied by the standard denials of said wrongdoing while at Morgan). Sounds similar to the 'wonderous' deal we got on the crappy, leftover Dell computers when Carty was around (Carty was at that time and still is on Dell's board of directors and now is Dell's CFO also).

I'm not sure what else anyone would expect out of corporation with so much integrity in its board of directors, but lets go on arguing about union representation and keep the heat off our real enemies (read extreme sarcasm).

 

[FWAAA]

I expect that many investors have seen some shrinkage in the past few weeks as the Dow drops from 14,000 to less than 13,000 and with similar movements in the NASDAQ and the S&P 500.

Stocks go up and stocks go down. Had no idea that market fluctuations were now blamed on Morgan Stanley and/or AMR.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

I expect that many investors have seen some shrinkage in the past few weeks as the Dow drops from 14,000 to less than 13,000 and with similar movements in the NASDAQ and the S&P 500.

Stocks go up and stocks go down. Had no idea that market fluctuations were now blamed on Morgan Stanley and/or AMR.

I love a good margin call, don't you?

Just for grins, I'm going to ask - when AMR grants an executive stock with a guaranteed selling price, who/what/when/where/why/how is the difference made up when the executive sells his stock for 38.00 and the market price is 21.00? Where does that extra 17 bucks come from? Again, just for grins.

I wasn't blaming Morgan Stanley, I was referring to JP Morgan - my bad for not being more specific. My reference was that JP Morgan offers employees absolute garbage to invest in through the plans. It seems like it is designed to loose money or make very little. Can't have employees getting rich off of their pension investments now can we.

Since I am not entirely familiar with the guts of this plan, perhaps someone can tell me, is this the type of plan where the employee can just cash out and put their funds into an IRA type fund or something? Anything to get away from the AMR plans? The next time I hear someone complain, I'd like to be able to say "cash out" but if they can't and are stuck, well, that sucks too.

 

[Hopeful]

I agree.
It is kind of funny that when we make money on our 401k plans,,we say "wow, damn 401k is going up like mad,"
But when we lose, especially at the rate we are experiencing now , we start playing the blame game.

Human nature I guess. But if you don't have the stomach for the ups and downs of the market, I suggest you put all your money in the Credit Union fund with virtually no risk but minuscule returns.

 

[FWAAA]

I love a good margin call, don't you?

Dunno, Wing, that's not how I gamble. I don't borrow money to buy stock.

Just for grins, I'm going to ask - when AMR grants an executive stock with a guaranteed selling price, who/what/when/where/why/how is the difference made up when the executive sells his stock for 38.00 and the market price is 21.00? Where does that extra 17 bucks come from? Again, just for grins.

I have no idea, since I'm not familiar with any stock granted to execs with a "guaranteed selling price" (whatever that is).

I wasn't blaming Morgan Stanley, I was referring to JP Morgan - my bad for not being more specific. My reference was that JP Morgan offers employees absolute garbage to invest in through the plans. It seems like it is designed to loose money or make very little. Can't have employees getting rich off of their pension investments now can we.

My bad; Goose mentioned Morgan Stanley and, not being employed by AMR or any of its subs, I took his word for it. Goose may be confused and might think the two Morgans are the same outfit (which they are not). I apologize.

Since I am not entirely familiar with the guts of this plan, perhaps someone can tell me, is this the type of plan where the employee can just cash out and put their funds into an IRA type fund or something? Anything to get away from the AMR plans? The next time I hear someone complain, I'd like to be able to say "cash out" but if they can't and are stuck, well, that sucks too.

As a general rule, 401(k) monies can't be rolled into an IRA until the employee "separates" from employment. Many companies, however, allow self-directed 401(k) accounts that mimic an IRA provided that the employee is willing to pay the management fees (which often resemble trust account fees - about 1% of assets annually).

 

[eolesen]

I don't believe there is a self-directed option at AMR, but I could be mistaken.

[This is not financial advice disclaimer]

But you do have the option of cashing out up to 50% by taking a loan against your 401K that you don't repay -- there's a hefty tax penalty of about 30% for the pre-retirement age withdrawl, but if you think you're going to lose at least that much in fund value as the market spirals downward, it might be something to consider...

I wound up doing that when I sold my house in Texas and had to come up with about $12K at closing to pay commissions and fees. The tax hit came out to be better than facing another six to twelve months of mortage payments, since the pre-owned housing market hasn't gotten any better in the past year. The leftover cash floated me thru the first month without a paycheck, and the rest went into the bank to save for the eventual tax payment. The other option was taking out a loan from a bank or credit union with 9-12% interest, which would be cutting into my post-parole cashflow a lot more than the tax penalty would.

It's not something I would recommend doing unless you really look at the costs of doing it, and certainly not something I'd do if I were closer to retirement age. I know I have enough good working years left to rebuild what I took out, and what I'm stashing away now plus my new employer's matching will make up for that soon enough.

[/This is not financial advice disclaimer]

 

[Bob Owens]

One thing we all should remember is AMR doesn't set these 401s up for the employees' benefit - there's plenty of money flowing into the company from the business directed to Morgan Stanley, i. e., the industry standard kickbacks (I'm quite certain they have another, less sinister name).

Also, let's not forget that one of the AMR directors, Philip Purcel, was cashiered from Morgan (he was the CEO) after there were allegations of wrongdoing (accompanied by the standard denials of said wrongdoing while at Morgan). Sounds similar to the 'wonderous' deal we got on the crappy, leftover Dell computers when Carty was around (Carty was at that time and still is on Dell's board of directors and now is Dell's CFO also).

I'm not sure what else anyone would expect out of corporation with so much integrity in its board of directors, but lets go on arguing about union representation and keep the heat off our real enemies (read extreme sarcasm).

Well when your union representatives work for your enemy that makes them your enemy.

I heard that the International had the negotiation committee attend a presentation from the ATA. Its clear that the International is trying to condition the committee to accept whatever the company offers.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

Sometimes in order to defeat your enemy, you must become your enemy.

 

[eolesen]

At the very least, you need to think like your enemy, something the TWU and APFA have done rather poorly.

Those unions should be using professional negotiators who better know how to rebut what the company is going to use against you. Instead, you've got people sitting at the table who were rewarded for their loyalty to their patron, rather than having earned it due to their business and financial acumen.

 

[desertfox]

They have been taking some heavy losses. Some employees are screaming about loosing as much as $10,000.00 in less than a month. Morgan offers garbage for items to invest in. July was wicked but with three more rounds of bonuses paid to the Dip-Stik 5 in July, it was to be expected.

I don't know what group you are in and if your 401k choices are different than others, but most of the fund choices are highly rated. Check them for yourself on Morningstar or fundalarm.com.

 

[The Goose]

I love a good margin call, don't you?

Just for grins, I'm going to ask - when AMR grants an executive stock with a guaranteed selling price, who/what/when/where/why/how is the difference made up when the executive sells his stock for 38.00 and the market price is 21.00? Where does that extra 17 bucks come from? Again, just for grins.

I wasn't blaming Morgan Stanley, I was referring to JP Morgan - my bad for not being more specific. My reference was that JP Morgan offers employees absolute garbage to invest in through the plans. It seems like it is designed to loose money or make very little. Can't have employees getting rich off of their pension investments now can we.

Since I am not entirely familiar with the guts of this plan, perhaps someone can tell me, is this the type of plan where the employee can just cash out and put their funds into an IRA type fund or something? Anything to get away from the AMR plans? The next time I hear someone complain, I'd like to be able to say "cash out" but if they can't and are stuck, well, that sucks too.

Yeah - I fouled that one up. We do have JP Morgan rather than Morgan Stanley.

JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, Captain Morgan - what's the difference?

 

[TWU informer]

Yeah - I fouled that one up. We do have JP Morgan rather than Morgan Stanley.

JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, Captain Morgan - what's the difference?

Let's just get a t-shirt with a slogan applied about our 401k losses, and instruct everyone to wear them on a certain day of the week. Then the losses will become as tolerable and TWU Cocessions and BBQ.

Then when can go to the stockholders meeting and complain to Yuppee, Arpey, or Ourpay...what's the difference?

Even if you lost $15,000.00 in your 401k in the last three weeks. That is nothinig compared to what you have lost since 2003 in the restructuring agreement. Why complain about the pebble of sand, when the whole beach has been thrashed, trashed, or slashed - What's the difference?

Maybe we could obtain one of those Jim Little "without further ratification", before amendable date changes to our labor agreement that actually reflects postively in our bottom dollar. Naw, not a chance! Funny how that labor agreement can only be changed between ratification and amendable date when the corporate pirates need releif. When the worker is due, we must wait and follow RLA.

Of course now that DENNIS BURCHETTE has been APPOINTED AA System Coordinator at the TWU-ATD Office, he will stick his hands in the companies pockets as promised and resolve the worker madness over concessions for jobs and management bonuses. That's right, appointed not elected, Burchette will fix this problem, I saw this factual myth with my own two eyes on a CNBC video production.

 

[TWU informer]

What?