The engineer involved in that story eventually went on to become a pilot himself. Years later he met his death in the waters of Argentia Bay, Newfoundland in a 214ST. It's odd the things and people you sometimes think of when you are blowing up the air mattress on a camping trip. Depending on the mood, I either chuckle while I'm doing that or feel kinda sad.
Know Roy Heibel, Trans-quebec Helicopter Pilot?
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transquebecniece
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Geez, cap. Sorry, man. And your son's Godfather, no less. And in the water, too...that stinks. Smartie Pants is opening mouth and depositing foot again :lock:
The sea is dangerous and its storms terrible, but these obstacles have never been sufficient reason to remain ashore. . . . Unlike the mediocre, intrepid spirits seek victory over those things that seem impossible. . . . It is with an iron will that they embark on the most daring of all endeavors. . . . to meet the shadowy future without fear and conquer the unknown.
— Ferdinand Magellan, circa 1520.
The sea is dangerous and its storms terrible, but these obstacles have never been sufficient reason to remain ashore. . . . Unlike the mediocre, intrepid spirits seek victory over those things that seem impossible. . . . It is with an iron will that they embark on the most daring of all endeavors. . . . to meet the shadowy future without fear and conquer the unknown.
— Ferdinand Magellan, circa 1520.
TQniece -------ahhhhh, I'm far from unique in that regard. You'd find that there are lots on this board that have lost close friends in the industry, if they've been in it any time at all. I'm just one of a cast of many people in that regard. The friend involved was just part of a situation where the aircraft went into a catostrophic failure. It wasn't to be the only time that that particular type of a/c did so either. Months later, it hit again and took some other "not as close" friends once again.
transquebecniece
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Question for any Vietnam Veteran pilots on the CAaviation forum: what would you consider to be the best Internet forum for making contact with other Vietnam Army pilots? I've seen a lot of them, many with old or outdated links that don't work anymore and for different branches of the military, but am having a hard time deciphering the best way to find a U.S. Army Pilot forum for Vietnam Veterans. Any suggestions much appreciated.
Cap---search for Rodger still continues. And you may not think you're unique, but I think you're all unique. My dad used to say that "from the time we're born 'til the time we die, we're just a name and a number." How's that for military/government logic? 😉 I always hated when he said that. We're so much more than that because of the lives we impact, either knowingly or unknowingly. I know he knew this, too; but to admit to such would've made him an old softie!
Happy Wednesday!
Cap---search for Rodger still continues. And you may not think you're unique, but I think you're all unique. My dad used to say that "from the time we're born 'til the time we die, we're just a name and a number." How's that for military/government logic? 😉 I always hated when he said that. We're so much more than that because of the lives we impact, either knowingly or unknowingly. I know he knew this, too; but to admit to such would've made him an old softie!
Happy Wednesday!
Hi everyone:
I knew all the people who were onboard 500D GXJR when it crashed into Harrison Lake. Bill is a good guy; he was low time then and being given the opportunity to build some time; I believe they were reconning an area for a future job.
Experienced mountiain pilots know that you fly along up close to a steep range so that you can either benefit from the buoyant upflowing air or, if you're on the lee side, stay below the demarcation line in the calm air so as to avoid the downflow. If something bad happens, such as an engine failure or a strong downdraft, then you turn away from the hill.
Experienced guys also know that if the visibility is lousy, then it is better to fly out from the range far enough, that in the event the visibility drops right off, you can turn in to the mountain in order to maintain a visible reference.
My understanding is that Bill had to take quick action in order to maintain reference and that he turned out from the hill. An easy thing to do for a relatively low time guy.
They turned out towards the lake, they had no reference, the aircraft descended and struck the water.
That's how I remember hearing it from Rocky, an experienced pilot and instructor, who was riding in the back; he wrecked his knee kicking out the back door.
They located the aircraft with a remote camera sub. The sub/camera operator believed that there was a layer of salt water at the bottom of the lake; the aircraft had corroded more than expected.
Also, Dan Dunn, the owner of Quasar, told me at the time that they made a positive identification of Roy by reading his name off a chequebook that had fallen out of is pocket and was sitting there right beside him.
ArniePye
I knew all the people who were onboard 500D GXJR when it crashed into Harrison Lake. Bill is a good guy; he was low time then and being given the opportunity to build some time; I believe they were reconning an area for a future job.
Experienced mountiain pilots know that you fly along up close to a steep range so that you can either benefit from the buoyant upflowing air or, if you're on the lee side, stay below the demarcation line in the calm air so as to avoid the downflow. If something bad happens, such as an engine failure or a strong downdraft, then you turn away from the hill.
Experienced guys also know that if the visibility is lousy, then it is better to fly out from the range far enough, that in the event the visibility drops right off, you can turn in to the mountain in order to maintain a visible reference.
My understanding is that Bill had to take quick action in order to maintain reference and that he turned out from the hill. An easy thing to do for a relatively low time guy.
They turned out towards the lake, they had no reference, the aircraft descended and struck the water.
That's how I remember hearing it from Rocky, an experienced pilot and instructor, who was riding in the back; he wrecked his knee kicking out the back door.
They located the aircraft with a remote camera sub. The sub/camera operator believed that there was a layer of salt water at the bottom of the lake; the aircraft had corroded more than expected.
Also, Dan Dunn, the owner of Quasar, told me at the time that they made a positive identification of Roy by reading his name off a chequebook that had fallen out of is pocket and was sitting there right beside him.
ArniePye
TQniece ----- made a call and got some info for you.
The CAT/Air America Archive is the University of Texas at Dallas. If you wish to get info from the archives, call Erik Carlson @ 972-883-2570. They've recently "released" all the personnel that were employed by them, so that they can speak and write. He'll point you where you want to go. If you want some info on Roy's military time and places to place your request for info on Roy from Army friends, I suggest obtaining that info from your local VFW. I say that because you have no way of knowing what sites are valid on the internet and those that aren't. Considering 1.4M served in Vietnam, but 4M plus are "claiming" service there, you must be careful. The Vietnam Veterans of America and Canada have declared "all out war" on these "supposed vets" and have already "pressured" one Major League baseball Manager to admit so himself or they were going to reveal him themselves. So make that call Re: Air America and wander down to the local VFW and they'll recommend the best sources. The 1st Air Cav at Ft. Hood, TX would also be another source, but try the other two first. Roy also did Advanced Training at Mineral Wells, TX and there'll be info there also. Anyway, have at'er and the best of luck gal.
Your dad was right........ to the Army you were a Name and a Regimental Number period. "Unique".......maybe to you, but around my house I'm "hey Dad, could I borrow a couple of 20's tonite?...pay you back tomorrow" or "You make a bed better than I do, so would make the beds please?" Ya, I'm "unique" alright.
The CAT/Air America Archive is the University of Texas at Dallas. If you wish to get info from the archives, call Erik Carlson @ 972-883-2570. They've recently "released" all the personnel that were employed by them, so that they can speak and write. He'll point you where you want to go. If you want some info on Roy's military time and places to place your request for info on Roy from Army friends, I suggest obtaining that info from your local VFW. I say that because you have no way of knowing what sites are valid on the internet and those that aren't. Considering 1.4M served in Vietnam, but 4M plus are "claiming" service there, you must be careful. The Vietnam Veterans of America and Canada have declared "all out war" on these "supposed vets" and have already "pressured" one Major League baseball Manager to admit so himself or they were going to reveal him themselves. So make that call Re: Air America and wander down to the local VFW and they'll recommend the best sources. The 1st Air Cav at Ft. Hood, TX would also be another source, but try the other two first. Roy also did Advanced Training at Mineral Wells, TX and there'll be info there also. Anyway, have at'er and the best of luck gal.
Your dad was right........ to the Army you were a Name and a Regimental Number period. "Unique".......maybe to you, but around my house I'm "hey Dad, could I borrow a couple of 20's tonite?...pay you back tomorrow" or "You make a bed better than I do, so would make the beds please?" Ya, I'm "unique" alright.
Hello Cap.
The enginer who went on to become a pilot,and sadly lost his life in the 214 crash off of NFLD.Was that Gary Fallow.Not sure of the spelling,but met him in Goose Bay Labrador back in 79 or 80 when I was there with Sealand.Terrable tragady and the other 214 months later.Earlier we were talking about Jim Masse in this thread.The last time I saw Jim was when he was working on one of the 214s in Halifax.I was then flying Pumas offshore for Sealand.That 214 sure looked funny with those tiny little Cessna like wheels on her.
Take care and have a great day.....Mini.
The enginer who went on to become a pilot,and sadly lost his life in the 214 crash off of NFLD.Was that Gary Fallow.Not sure of the spelling,but met him in Goose Bay Labrador back in 79 or 80 when I was there with Sealand.Terrable tragady and the other 214 months later.Earlier we were talking about Jim Masse in this thread.The last time I saw Jim was when he was working on one of the 214s in Halifax.I was then flying Pumas offshore for Sealand.That 214 sure looked funny with those tiny little Cessna like wheels on her.
Take care and have a great day.....Mini.
No not Gary, although I also knew him. I'm was speaking about the other half of the flight deck.....Frank Kearney.
I knew James real well.....another welcome guest in my home.....the wife thought he was an"old softie". Jim and Frank hit it off real well. They had some "heathy arguments" about "things aviation", but all in good fun. 😀
I knew James real well.....another welcome guest in my home.....the wife thought he was an"old softie". Jim and Frank hit it off real well. They had some "heathy arguments" about "things aviation", but all in good fun. 😀
transquebecniece
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ArniePye. I'm grateful you came back and all I can say is, "Wow." I've read your latest post three times now; even made me cry. That is the most information we have EVER heard about the day out over and under Harrison Lake. The most. After more than two decades. Wow. I'm almost speechless. I hope you'll forgive me; I'm left with more questions. So visibility was lousy that day? Was it cloudy, stormy or foggy? And we'd heard their were four guys in the Quasar: Roy, Bill, Rocky and ? By the way, I've never known the names of the other guys; just Roy. But if you see or talk to Bill or Rocky, if they're still around, I hope you'll share my earlier post with them with respect to "no hard feelings" and all, okay? I would hope that one day they'd feel comfortable talking to me; just to say "hey" and to know that they're okay and have moved past it all, you know? Roy would've wanted that more than anything. And if they would prefer not, I certainly understand. And finally, I'd just like to clear up one thing if you know or not: Dan Dunn must've been referring to Roy and his checkbook right beside him "on the lake bed" four months after the crash, because we were told that the bird was found first, much earlier. Can anyone confirm that for sure for me? Copter hauled up in February 1981; Roy recovered in June 1981? I am SOOOO appreciative to finally know more. It won't bring Roy back, but knowing next to nothing has been downright tortuous for a very, very long time. Thanks, ArniePye! You can never know how much this means to my family.
Well, Cap, you unique-Concours-Class-kinda-guy who has made an impact on ME anyway (kids never appreciate their parents until they're [the kids] much older, wiser and have suffered enough loss to miss what they don't have anymore)...I'm a step ahead of you. I talked to Erik Carlson about 8 weeks ago and he extended a personal invitation for me to weed through the archives myself down in Dallas anytime I want; poor guy is simply too swamped and understaffed to do any digging. Nice guy, though. Oddly enough, I was in Dallas in February, and had I known then, I would've been knocking on his door! Oh well. I'll get to the Lone-Star state of TX again one day. Never thought about the VFW, though. Duh! Why is it that the most logical is often the elusive? 🙄 Thanks, too, for direction on The 1st Air Cav at Ft. Hood, TX and Advanced Training at Mineral Wells, TX...as always...great leads! And I just can't imagine anyone being brazen enough to claim they were a Vet; don't they know there are ways to verify that?! What are they after? Benefits or something? How tacky is that, the shmucks! Geez...just when you think you've heard it all...
Gotta go read Arnie Pye's post again. I'm just beside myself here....I LOVE you guys!
Well, Cap, you unique-Concours-Class-kinda-guy who has made an impact on ME anyway (kids never appreciate their parents until they're [the kids] much older, wiser and have suffered enough loss to miss what they don't have anymore)...I'm a step ahead of you. I talked to Erik Carlson about 8 weeks ago and he extended a personal invitation for me to weed through the archives myself down in Dallas anytime I want; poor guy is simply too swamped and understaffed to do any digging. Nice guy, though. Oddly enough, I was in Dallas in February, and had I known then, I would've been knocking on his door! Oh well. I'll get to the Lone-Star state of TX again one day. Never thought about the VFW, though. Duh! Why is it that the most logical is often the elusive? 🙄 Thanks, too, for direction on The 1st Air Cav at Ft. Hood, TX and Advanced Training at Mineral Wells, TX...as always...great leads! And I just can't imagine anyone being brazen enough to claim they were a Vet; don't they know there are ways to verify that?! What are they after? Benefits or something? How tacky is that, the shmucks! Geez...just when you think you've heard it all...
Gotta go read Arnie Pye's post again. I'm just beside myself here....I LOVE you guys!
TQniece ----Check your PM's.......... I sent you more info that is more local and easier to get at. You'll have to dig up more info on Roy at home that should've been sent your way or someone's in the family re: his service info. Get your hands on as much of that as you can and when you do, contact the Personnel Records Center, St. Louis, MO. They also have a website and you can run from there. You'll have to state who you are and how related. They may even have you produce Roy's Death Certificate before they release info. Once you have that, you will know what Divisions, Regiments and Squadrons he served with, where and for how long (count on him having trained at Ft. Rucker, Alabama and Ft Wolters, THEN he would have went to Mineral Wells for his Vertol Training). Then you know more info that will help you address those people in those units that would've served with Roy. Remember also, that the 1st Air Cav was a Division of 16,000+ and wasn't all made up of helicopter people. They were basically a complete Army with all the elements of an army that you might expect, so you might end up making a contact with some tank commander that knew Roy well or some trooper who owes his "butt" to Roy picking him up out of some "hot LZ". Careful for "nicknames" too because almost everyone had one. You may also be surprised at some of the "then unknown" personalities that he might have served with. Many came out of the Division and into the entertainment industry, such as Kris Kristofferson and Mel Tillis of C & W fame, etc.
Amazing thread. Many thanks to all who have made it so.
Cap, while I have no illusions of the glory of war, you bring out the closeness that I'm sure was shared by many. A closeness that was (is) shared throughout your life.
Reading of the stories you have posted, almost makes one wish he could be a part of it. But of course we can't if we weren't there, we just don't fit into that crowd. The closest we will come is "borrowing" from your experience and friendships. 😀
This started with Roy and has grown to so much more. I wish I had had the pleasure of knowing him. Truely sounds like a great man and a loss to the avaition industry, as were many others over the years. We all would do good to follow their examples to make this industry "a better place". B)
I'm one of the lucky ones that had people like you and your friends, my dad and his friends, and many others, fighting for my freedom. The rights and wrongs of any such conflicts are not important here, but you sharing with all of us is.
To all who were there, I thank you, my children thank you, and my grandchildren thank you.
To all who have shared on this thread, you've made it one of the best so far!
Cap, while I have no illusions of the glory of war, you bring out the closeness that I'm sure was shared by many. A closeness that was (is) shared throughout your life.
Reading of the stories you have posted, almost makes one wish he could be a part of it. But of course we can't if we weren't there, we just don't fit into that crowd. The closest we will come is "borrowing" from your experience and friendships. 😀
This started with Roy and has grown to so much more. I wish I had had the pleasure of knowing him. Truely sounds like a great man and a loss to the avaition industry, as were many others over the years. We all would do good to follow their examples to make this industry "a better place". B)
I'm one of the lucky ones that had people like you and your friends, my dad and his friends, and many others, fighting for my freedom. The rights and wrongs of any such conflicts are not important here, but you sharing with all of us is.
To all who were there, I thank you, my children thank you, and my grandchildren thank you.
To all who have shared on this thread, you've made it one of the best so far!
