Leader Throws Carrot To Employees

[AOG-N-IT]

If this is true (I find I say that alot here!) it is positive. Any mainline growth, job saved or brought back is positive.

But is this just a rumour? Will we hear a confirmation of this?

PITbull, what is the currenr "rough ratio" of FAs per a/c? How many FAs would 60 planes theoretically bring back?

LIght,

60 planes would bring back between 1200 and 1400 f/as. This can't be true. I belevieve they will furlough in January.

Sadly PITBull,

I'm inclined to believe that January is going to present some dark days for a lot of us here.

This un-named source is speaking in terms of all groups dropping thier trousers and placing a welcome mat at their feet to acheive a supposed trade-off...Yet I think the majority knows that this just ain't going to happen.

When I see named sources stating real figures...and real lease options based on logical choices...then maybe I'd be willing to do something ?, but it will take some by-God tangible stuff to sway my opinion of whats at hand here.

Token jestures I can get anywhere..I've felt better in 5 o'clock traffic after being given the finger than I do about hollow rumors and promises.

I want tangible WE are going to do thus in such evidence of a plan...and a bonfied change for the better in Labor Management relations before I'd endorse as much as a change of a penny an hour to off-set these blundering peoples actions.

 

[PITbull]

AOG,

I believe you have a very logical, mythodical mind. I trust your intuition, friend.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Kiloromeo & AOG:

Kiloromeo said: "The rub is that in order to get the 60 planes, work rules will have to change such that relatively few people will be brought back for the 60 aircraft....then Dave can get the employee per aircraft ratio to where the LCCs are."

Chip comments: Bingo! Plus rolling hubs in PHL & CLT, expanded A320 (30 in 2004 & 30 in 2005) fleet with work rule changes/no recalls, outsourced Airbi heavy maintenance to be heard on January 13, new PHL traffic patterns, IT changes, facility consolidation, PIT hub cost reductions, MDA/alliance growth, and when things stablize between UA & US, the corporate transaction.

AOG, who first broke the news on this website of 60 additional aircraft and then said they were Airbi?

Regards,

Chip

 

[AOG-N-IT]

AOG,

I believe you have a very logical, mythodical mind. I trust your intuition, friend.

Thank you dear friend !!

I am not remotely tossing caution out just to be thought of as the "Anti-Chip"...

I see where we trip over our own damn feet night after night with comparatively stream-lined fleet as opposed to what we were dealing with in say FY 2000.

Yet the assertion is being made by some un-munned/named sources that we take a Giant step backwards to a fleet plan that will net the same in-effiencies that we struggled for years to get past , yet never completed due in part to management being tunnel visioned on mergers or UCT/ICT's alone. September 11th 2001 was but the final nail in our coffin for that side of the pre-BK US world.

Do not BUY INTO Anything that deviates from the present fleet rationalization momentum we've tried to achieve in a round about way. The differences that any deviation will create will astronomical and in part financed on the backs of labor with 100% certainty....not give-backs but pink-slips and a trip into aviation oblivion in rather short order.

We can be amoung the 3 0r 4 survivors in this world as Seigel loves to lament with the right plan...and the right planes , the Dukes Mix Fleet didn't work or make sense in the best of times...it will NOT pay dividends in the worst of times any better. Go Dance with the one that brung ya ...not by wearing someones ill-fitting hand-me-downs.

 

[N628AU]

Chip,

News is not "broken" until there is something official. A signed intent with either Airbus or Boeing for 60 aircraft would satisfy that need nicely. If you can't produce it, with all due respect, it is nothing more than the sarcastic thread about Mesa buying US.

You mentioned with another 60 aircraft they could get to LCC employee ratios with no recalls. I see no way to operate 60 aircraft (about a 23% or so increase), with only work rule changes. You have to have someone board these aircraft, man the stations you plan on flying them to (I assume 60 aircraft are not just going to increase frequencies), you need crews to staff them (how many crew pairings per aircraft are required now? Can you produce a workrule change to make the current numbers work), and finally someone must maintain them. The company will most likely lose the Airbus outsource case, and with them trying to circumvent the IAM contract previously, I see them taking a very hard stand against negotiating with the company (had the company come forward with something earlier, there may have been a window to negotiate).

I will ask you this question. What specific work rule changes do you propose to operate 60 aircraft with no recalls. As in school, please show your work at you arrive at these numbers.

 

[flynomore]

60, 85 firm orders and how many options?

The dog that did not bark in this is what type of airplanes. I will bet this 'new number' is the initial fleet plan for almost airways, aka MDA/MAA whatever. I thought about increase in block hours, too, but consider the last airplane order. What was the phrase?

More airplanes than God can count. Ringing a bell?

Funny thing happened along the way, only the original order was completed streamlining the fleet mix. I am way past hope and only looking at facts and comparing them to my experiences here to date.

Keep that weather eye open, y'all.

 

[USA320Pilot]

N628AU;

I am not very familiar with other labor group contract comparisons, but I have a pretty good handle on the pilot contract.

I do not want to do an in-depth analysis, but here are some areas management might seek from ALPA:

- Create training lines to reduce bought trips.

- Combine B767I/B767D flying to reduce reserve staffing.

- PC/PT/RGS/AQP training pay no credit (overtime).

- Fly 90 hours per month.

- Pref Bid (huge savings).

- Increase reserve utilization through time balancing.

- Relax rescheduling provisions.

- Reduce moving days.

- Use medically disabled pilots to conduct simulator training.

- Permit pilot to move early to new bid to avoid inactive with pay status.

Pref bid will provide a 11% increase in productivity, therefore, if the other changes provide 11%, that would be a 20% increase in flying. 20% of 279 aircraft, for discussion purposes, would be 56 jets -- which is not to far from 60.

By the way, guess where the jets could come from?

Regards,

Chip

P.S. By the way, the VP of Flight Operations has gone on record saying the new plan will not involve pilot W-2 cuts or furloughs.

 

[flynomore]

I don't want to seem pendantic, skipper, but percentages are not additive.

You will not get 20% from adding a 10% increase to a 10% increase. More like 11%, 10% of 10 is 1.

Given that the average line flies 18-20 days now, how many will work the extra days for no benny? To get everyone to go along, it has to be worthwhile. Back when we flew 6-8 hours/day for a 12-14 day month that was possible. Not under the current scheduling algorhytm.

Nice try sport.

 

[N628AU]

Chip,

You may be able to get that amount of productivity from ALPA, but I doubt it from the rest of the labor groups. Can your dispatchers get you 23% more releases with their current staffing? Can MOC handle maintenance calls from a 23% increase in aircraft? Can you move enough FS and CS staff to new stations aand still handle the loads at the current ones? Can the maintenance planners and material controllers handle the additional work that comes? Some of these groups are working to the bone as it is, and working overtime just to cover shifts right now.

As for guessing where the planes are coming from, if you are back on RSA giving us former UA metal, with all the different engines among other things (like avionics), you have just increased your costs.

Does RSA want to foot the bill to do the software and pylon and engine changes on an Airbus fleet to lease them to US? I think the pension fund holders may have an issue with that.

 

[ClueByFour]

Chip comments: Bingo! Plus rolling hubs in PHL & CLT, expanded A320 (30 in 2004 & 30 in 2005) fleet with work rule changes/no recalls, outsourced Airbi heavy maintenance to be heard on January 13, new PHL traffic patterns, IT changes, facility consolidation, PIT hub cost reductions, MDA/alliance growth, and when things stablize between UA & US, the corporate transaction.

OK, so exactly what happens when every OA gets the FAA to keep things status quo in PHL, the judges rule against US in court on the Airbus issue, and PIT continues to tell US to pound sand? Oh, and UA emerges with their new 2 billion in funding and offers US a few 744s due for heavy and maybe a 762 that is old enough to vote and not ETOPS capable?

Alice at 11.

 

[ONTHESTREET]

Boy you folks are gullible. 60 planes on mainline you say.

In Dave speak, he just told you MDA is gearing up. Nothing new here.

Remember that ALL MDA aircraft are going to fly on USAirways certificate....So in Daves mind that means 60 new aircraft to the mainline fleet.


AND YOU ALL BOUGHT IT!!!!!!



Dave is so full of crap...and worst of all there are still people that believe the B.S. that he puts out. Personally I wiped my A*# with his latest letter. Not as soft as Charmin but quite satisfying!


Cheers

 

[Light Years]

MidAtlantic aircraft are not considered part of the mainline fleet count. MAA will have 85 aircraft (EMB170/175) as it stands now. If the company were to order EMB190/195s these would have to be operated by mainline proper under the current scope clause. This post seems to imply Airbuses though... I'd still like to see the source.

 

[a320av8r]

Does anybody know, for certain, how many 733/734's and A320 series aircraft we have parked but are still operational?

 

[700UW]

We do not own or hold any leases on 737, 757 or 767s that are in the desert, we parked nine Airbii and returned them to both lessors in bankruptcy, but we just signed new leases on those planes and they are being returned to the fleet as we park the airbii due to them running out of time, 706, 707 and 101 have been returned all ready with the other six to follow.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Geez, Knowing these guys and their penchant for "the truth", how can you accept a word they say. I wouldn't believe UAIR was getting 60 mainline airplanes until I saw them in service. I wouldn't even believe it if I saw them sitting on the ramp in UAIR colors until I saw a release with the aircraft number and the name of a pilot on U's seniority list (on ALL of 'em). What's to prevent these "managers" from acquiring these with other employees from another carrier (relax, I didn't say where), shafting current and furloughed employees once again. Or, even better, using them to REPLACE 80 or so aging 737s and 757s. Sorry, I've learned to intrepret everything this management says as a huge lie. Ask the PA delegation about just how trustworthy Dave and his friends are! Without better management UAIR is DONE!