Libya

[777 fixer]

Here's something the French Have not done in a long time.


http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/24/french-jets-reportedly-shoot-libyan-warplane-qaddafi-violates-fly-zone/

 

[SparrowHawk]

I just can't help but wonder why he seems to be so popular with conspiracy theorists and white supremacists. Or what was he thinking when it came out a neo-nazi gave him money and he did not return it

RE:Neo Nazi money spends the same as anyone's money is why! If you buy into the the basic premise that we live in a truly free society then that money is no different than yours or mine. You can also inquire of other Republican candidates as to why they refused funds from the Log Cabin Republicans an openly gay group. I think Ron Paul's decision to not return the money is morally consistent with his core message of individual liberty and far less hypocritical then the so called main stream Republicans.

RE:Conspiracy theorists love anyone who raises questions, like why there has never been a complete audit of the Federal Reserve Bank. Ron asks a lot of pointed questions and frankly doesn't get answers. I think that's because those who know the answers, know the American Public would lynch them if they ever found out. Conspiracy theorists eat that type of crap up! It fuels some type of paranoia within that I just don't understand. To me the conspiracy theorists give the politicical and ruling class far to much credit for their level of both intelligence and business acumen. I don't think you could get a simple majority of a state Congressional delegation at 10AM to agree on a place to have lunch that day much less rule the world.

 

[777 fixer]

RE:Neo Nazi money spends the same as anyone's money is why! If you buy into the the basic premise that we live in a truly free society then that money is no different than yours or mine. You can also inquire of other Republican candidates as to why they refused funds from the Log Cabin Republicans an openly gay group. I think Ron Paul's decision to not return the money is morally consistent with his core message of individual liberty and far less hypocritical then the so called main stream Republicans.

No, it's either a sign of stupidity or moral cowardice. In the end he's just like any other politician, he just wants your money.

 

[777 fixer]

RE:Conspiracy theorists love anyone who raises questions, like why there has never been a complete audit of the Federal Reserve Bank. Ron asks a lot of pointed questions and frankly doesn't get answers. I think that's because those who know the answers, know the American Public would lynch them if they ever found out. Conspiracy theorists eat that type of crap up! It fuels some type of paranoia within that I just don't understand. To me the conspiracy theorists give the politicical and ruling class far to much credit for their level of both intelligence and business acumen. I don't think you could get a simple majority of a state Congressional delegation at 10AM to agree on a place to have lunch that day much less rule the world.

Multiple appearances on the Alex Jones show? Which crowd is he trying to reach? The "Black helicopters are looking for me that's why I wear a tin foil hat in my parents basement" crowd?

 

[SparrowHawk]

Multiple appearances on the Alex Jones show? Which crowd is he trying to reach? The "Black helicopters are looking for me that's why I wear a tin foil hat in my parents basement" crowd?

Money is money and a vote is a vote. ponder this. Let's say he gets elected POTUS. I can think of at least two groups that have no organization and no lobbyists to owe favors to. Those 3 groups would be the black helicopter crowd and the Neo-Nazi types we discussed. So there isn't really any harm being done.

Go to a Ron Paul event and you'll see people you'd likely not invite to cocktails afterward. What I find quite interesting is that the overwhelming number of people attending are NOT from my generation. Most are under 30 and they put their money where their mouths are. NO ONE has raised more funds via the internet than Ron Paul and most of the millions he raised was in contributions under $100.00

The biggest problem with a guy like Ron Paul is he's a true believer and those folks rarely get elected beyond where Ron is now. Truth is Ron Paul is beginning to be effective and his message is resonating more this go around and frankly anyone who upsets and frightens the two major parties like he does can't be bad! Does it get him the Republican Nomination? Unlikely, but I can dream can't I?

 

[Ms Tree]

Sorry but I am a firm believer that you can judge a person by the type of company you keep. If you knowingly accept funds from a hate group then as far as I am concerned you at the very least are giving tacit approval to their beliefs.

I firmly believe in the right of the Ne-Nazis to assemble peacefully, campaign for any candidate they see fit and conduct any other business with in the limitations of the COTUS. I also believe in my right not to support them or associate with them in any way shape or form. Mr. Paul has those same rights/abilities.

Money is not money. Some money can be obtained from illegal activities. Money obtained by a drug lord is not they same as money obtained by the girl scouts. I am not sure what legal business ventures the N-N's have but I believe I have seen various articles that have shown them to have quite a few illegal ones.

Exactly how does one show support for individual liberties by accepting funds from a group that actively wishes to suppress the rights of a huge portion of society? I can support the right of the N-N to exist without accepting their money. Mr. Paul can do the same he has just chosen not to.

I do not know that he is a true believer or what that even means. What I do believe is that he does not understand that actions have consequences and supporting the N-N has consequences. It seems to me that he does not fully understand the ramifications of his actions/beliefs and that he has not thought them through. He like most other politicians does not seem to be worried about long term. He is saying what his people want to hear without concern for the future. In that he is like any other politician. Not worth a bucket of warm spit.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Sorry but I am a firm believer that you can judge a person by the type of company you keep. If you knowingly accept funds from a hate group then as far as I am concerned you at the very least are giving tacit approval to their beliefs.

I firmly believe in the right of the Ne-Nazis to assemble peacefully, campaign for any candidate they see fit and conduct any other business with in the limitations of the COTUS. I also believe in my right not to support them or associate with them in any way shape or form. Mr. Paul has those same rights/abilities.

Money is not money. Some money can be obtained from illegal activities. Money obtained by a drug lord is not they same as money obtained by the girl scouts. I am not sure what legal business ventures the N-N's have but I believe I have seen various articles that have shown them to have quite a few illegal ones.

Exactly how does one show support for individual liberties by accepting funds from a group that actively wishes to suppress the rights of a huge portion of society? I can support the right of the N-N to exist without accepting their money. Mr. Paul can do the same he has just chosen not to.

I do not know that he is a true believer or what that even means. What I do believe is that he does not understand that actions have consequences and supporting the N-N has consequences. It seems to me that he does not fully understand the ramifications of his actions/beliefs and that he has not thought them through. He like most other politicians does not seem to be worried about long term. He is saying what his people want to hear without concern for the future. In that he is like any other politician. Not worth a bucket of warm spit.

Well you couldn't be more wrong regarding long term beliefs. Ron Paul has held firm to his basic beliefs since his election to the US Congress in IIRC 1976. He was the Libertarian Party Presidential Candidate in 1988 running on essentially the same platform of strict adherence to the US Constitution. A "True Believer" is somewhat like your basic Fundamentalist Baptist or what is sometimes referred to as "Hard shell Baptists". They believe what they believe and come Hell or High water you aren't changing their minds.

As for Drug Lords and such, if we followed the principles of the US Constitution drugs would not be illegal as an individuals right to live as he or she chooses would be respected which would mean that Girl Scout and so called drug lords money would be equally clean at least in the eyes of the law. I firmly believe and their are stats to prove this that if we ended the insane war on drugs we would see at minimum a 30% drop in violent crime and around 50% on property crime. See Libertarians are Pro Choice on Everything, Abortion, Drugs, Prostitution you name it. Those are personal decisions best left out of the hands of meddling government do gooders. All are also a source of much needed tax revenue. Tax, regulate vices that are a public health issue like Prostitution and everyone wins even the conservative Christians as they now have some one new besides gays to rant about. More TV Advertising revenue as opposition groups rant, rave and spew their very own special brand of hatred & bigotry.

Freedom & Liberty is always a great thing as if nothing else it exposes people for who they are. For proof of this one need only look to Libya and its leaders actions when faced with demands of freedom and liberty from his citizens. Going back for a second did you ever stop to think that Ron Paul's refusal to give back the NN monies caused far more people to visit their web site and learn first hand about a group that at best is an affront to everything that Ron Paul and most politicians stand for in the US? Sometimes we have to educate folks by non traditional means. I learned more about the sick twisted minds of some people listening to Howard Stern than I ever did from Obama. Stern put them on the air, Klansmen, crackheads, strippers all the while poking fun at them and their views and the stereotypes associated with them. What did we as a society do? We drove him off of free radio.

 

[delldude]

Multiple appearances on the Alex Jones show? Which crowd is he trying to reach? The "Black helicopters are looking for me that's why I wear a tin foil hat in my parents basement" crowd?

The crowd that will provide enough votes I'd say.
He's favored by that bunch and others for his no BS style.
He would make a good president but GOP will never fund him.
You're going to see idiots like Romney and Huck fighting for it, ruling class GOP hasn't quite figured out the Tea Party crowd yet. Maybe in a couple elections if there anything left of this country after the Obama crowd goes away.

 

[dapoes]

Sorry but I am a firm believer that you can judge a person by the type of company you keep.

Like our current president who associates with known terrorists, marxists, anarchists and various other degenerates?

 

[SparrowHawk]

Like our current president who associates with known terrorists, marxists, anarchists and various other degenerates?

OOPS! That's gonna leave a mark! 😀 😀 Ron Paul only took their money he never met with them, solid approach, "Sure I'll take your money and forget you exist" as opposed to hobnobbing with every nit wit in the world.

 

[dapoes]

OOPS! That's gonna leave a mark! 😀 😀 Ron Paul only took their money he never met with them, solid approach, "Sure I'll take your money and forget you exist" as opposed to hobnobbing with every nit wit in the world.

Exactly, it never stopped Obama from getting elected. And his past and current associates are far worse and dangerous then anyone any other candidate ever had.

 

[delldude]

But did you see anything in MSM other than in the most watched news network?

 

[tech2101]

hobnobbing with every nit wit in the world.

So the President of the United States doing visits with other countries is hobnobbing?

You would have us build a wall around our country and pretend like there is nobody but us.

I know that is a Libertarian type philosophy, but you cannot be that naive.

 

[SparrowHawk]

So the President of the United States doing visits with other countries is hobnobbing?

You would have us build a wall around our country and pretend like there is nobody but us.

I know that is a Libertarian type philosophy, but you cannot be that naive.

There is a giant difference between the isolationist policies of the 1930's as expressed by none other than Charles Lindbergh and allowing ourselves to become entangled 166 treaties that undermine our Liberty, troops in 139 countries, acting as the world's police and worst of all embracing the concept of a "Preemptive War".

One of the only leaders in history to embrace the concept of a preemptive war not named Bush was the gentleman who invaded Poland on September 1, 1939.

Truth is if we had embraced the isolationist policies espoused by Lindbergh, it may have cost us the war and you and I would be conducting this debate in German. However, somewhere in between the well meaning philosophy of the isolationist of the 1930's and the current imperial/interventionist policies of today we can find a balance.

 

[Ms Tree]

Well you couldn't be more wrong regarding long term beliefs. Ron Paul has held firm to his basic beliefs since his election to the US Congress in IIRC 1976. He was the Libertarian Party Presidential Candidate in 1988 running on essentially the same platform of strict adherence to the US Constitution. A "True Believer" is somewhat like your basic Fundamentalist Baptist or what is sometimes referred to as "Hard shell Baptists". They believe what they believe and come Hell or High water you aren't changing their minds.

I was not referring to how long he has held the beliefs but that some of the beliefs are short sighted (people do not look long term). If that is a true believer then you can keep it. I want someone who will adjust their beliefs when situations change and warrant a different approach.

As for Drug Lords and such, if we followed the principles of the US Constitution drugs would not be illegal as an individuals right to live as he or she chooses would be respected which would mean that Girl Scout and so called drug lords money would be equally clean at least in the eyes of the law. I firmly believe and their are stats to prove this that if we ended the insane war on drugs we would see at minimum a 30% drop in violent crime and around 50% on property crime. See Libertarians are Pro Choice on Everything, Abortion, Drugs, Prostitution you name it. Those are personal decisions best left out of the hands of meddling government do gooders. All are also a source of much needed tax revenue. Tax, regulate vices that are a public health issue like Prostitution and everyone wins even the conservative Christians as they now have some one new besides gays to rant about. More TV Advertising revenue as opposition groups rant, rave and spew their very own special brand of hatred & bigotry.

When referring to a drug lord I am to the other things that go along with the title such as the murder, bribery and the like. So no their money is not equal. As for prostitution, that is a perfect example of not looking beyond the nice idea of personal freedom. Prostitution is not a victimless action. It is not the Chiken Ranch in Vegas. A lot of prostitutes are under age. Some are just stuck on the street under the thumb of a pimp. I seriously doubt you will ind many who want to live their life. Most feel like they have no way out.

I do not know what Mr.s Pauls view on prostitution is, but I surely hope it is not that simplistic although given that he is a politician I suspect it probably is.

Freedom & Liberty is always a great thing as if nothing else it exposes people for who they are. For proof of this one need only look to Libya and its leaders actions when faced with demands of freedom and liberty from his citizens. Going back for a second did you ever stop to think that Ron Paul's refusal to give back the NN monies caused far more people to visit their web site and learn first hand about a group that at best is an affront to everything that Ron Paul and most politicians stand for in the US? Sometimes we have to educate folks by non traditional means. I learned more about the sick twisted minds of some people listening to Howard Stern than I ever did from Obama. Stern put them on the air, Klansmen, crackheads, strippers all the while poking fun at them and their views and the stereotypes associated with them. What did we as a society do? We drove him off of free radio.

That strikes me as a pretty weak argument. The NRA gives money to a candidate because they expect that candidate to vote in accordance with their beliefs. No one is running to the NRA site to see what they believe. It's not exactly a well kept secret. Green peace will donate to a candidate that votes in accordance with it's beliefs. Again, not a big secret of what they believe. When the Neo-Nazis donate to a candidate and a candidate accepts that donation, I would be a it concerned. Their beliefs are not exactly a secret and I am pretty sure no one needs to go to their sight to see what they are. It would make me go to Pauls site to see what the he!! he was thinking.