liquidation is a distinct possibility

Hatu

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
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United Sees $877 Million Operating Loss
Tuesday March 18, 11:11 am ET
By Kathy Fieweger
CHICAGO (Reuters) - Bankrupt United Airlines forecast a first-quarter operating loss of $877 million and said for the first time publicly that liquidation is a distinct possibility.
In the last week alone, UAL Corp's (NYSE:UAL - News) United's domestic bookings are down and international bookings have dropped 40 percent due to the impending Iraq conflict.
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/030318/airlines_united_2.html
 

Winglet

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Aug 20, 2002
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The question all of us have to ask is what's our bottom line . . . . at what point does this job become not worth it.

Tilton is blazing the way to turn United into a "at will" company. Carty is just behind him with AA declaring BK in NLT June, most likely.
 

rotate

Member
Sep 2, 2002
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Okay. Let's play a big game of chicken now. The threat of liquidation is just a maneuver to get the employees to give up to the fat cat management.

Right.

After liquidation, the employees go to a level of suffering beyond their imagination. Evil management goes on to careers in other industries that pay them even more than they make at United.

Get a clue. This company and its employees are looking over the edge. It can happen and it will happen if work rules are not made more competitive.
 

usfliboi

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Aug 20, 2002
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One should assume that since the judge will agree to void union contracts, he really doesnt need unions willingness to go along. There was a big story on cnn saying the same thing that ual was now in real danger of chapter 7!
 

Bear96

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Aug 20, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 3/18/2003 9:07:09 PM rotate wrote:

...After liquidation, the employees go to a level of suffering beyond their imagination...

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[/blockquote]

Oh the drama... Please. It's a job, that's all. After liquidation, we'll collect unemployment for awhile; we'll find other jobs (believe me, as a Flight Attendant it is not hard to find a job paying our salary); some of us (like me) will go back to school to earn more advanced degrees, eventually earning much more than we ever could have in the glamorous airline biz. (Except for pilots, of course; most of them will be hard pressed to ever enjoy the income and time off they do now.) Sure there will be an adjustment period, but for the most part we'll be OK; many of us better off than before.

And I for one know that I am tired of continually subsidizing the public's appetite for cheap airfares by lowering my standard of living and making my quality of work life unbearable.

Then when the overcapacity problem in the industry is solved, and airfares start to rise, and smaller communities lose service, maybe then the remaining employees in this business can get paid what they deserve.
 

rotate

Member
Sep 2, 2002
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Of course, you''re right, Bear. Getting work that pays comparably with FA pay is not that difficult. However, you WILL work many more hours than you do now and you WILL be missing your beloved travel benefits and discounts. Oh yeah, I can hear you saying travel is so cheap now anyone can go. But when you have to pay out of pocket say, $348, for a round trip ticket within the US you will not travel anywhere near as frequently as you do now.

Pilots will lose everything. They''ll have to work many more hours and, in most cases, will make a lot less money. Those pilots who also have JDs and MBAs and CPAs (''cause everyone knows they are renaissance people)will have to work much longer hours for comparable compensation. After all, those doctors they like to compare themselves with are in the office, or hospital, every day, often for very long hours.

Bottom line, it is not labor''s fault the industry is in this mess. Everyone is entitled to what is negotiated. But this cannot be sustained anymore and airline employees must recognize it.

For a perspective on what its like after you lose your airline job please see US Airways forum. Its ugly.
 

Bear96

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
2,926
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----------------
On 3/19/2003 5:57:03 AM rotate wrote:

But when you have to pay out of pocket say, $348, for a round trip ticket within the US you will not travel anywhere near as frequently as you do now.

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Hmmm... the last time I used my passes for pleasure travel was... March 2002, a full year ago. Had to think a minute, as I could hardly remember. (And now that UA has revamped the employee travel system, it is no longer anywhere near free.)

Yeah, I''ll sure miss THAT benefit-- better put up with all this crap so I can go standby somehwere once a year!

You are right, I will miss the time off. But that is about all.

Have you seen the new pay rates UA is proposing in their court filings for the new low cost carrier? Those of us who end up there would be making $19/hr. Times 80 hrs./month, I''ll let you do the math. AND only 10 days off per month, with four of them moveable for reserves. (With NO PAY for FAA-mandated training such as recurrent emergency trainin.) So the time off is about to go anyways for those at my seniority who will probably be forced over to the LCC.

So if I leave, I can probably make 3X that, after I finish school, and have comparable time off.

In exchange, I''ll spring for the $300 for airfare for my annual vacation, thankyaverymuch.
 

txskygal

Member
Aug 21, 2002
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www.usaviation.com
I truly, truly wish all y''all luck. But, I must say this; I monitor many message boards, not just airlines, and the job market out there is seriously competitive! Even with a master''s, MBA, CPA, and all of those credentials, it''s very very difficult. Going back to school, well more power to you. But, the possibility of getting a job in this current economic market with NO experience (or outdated) in a field is going to be incredibly hard. I got out of college in the 80''s where the job market was very tight. Let me tell you; I''m NOT to proud to work at McDonald''s, etc! Make sure you have a job in hand (unless you''re independantly wealthy) before leaving this one. Please network with those not in the industry to see how it will pan out, before leaving. I understand the problem of being "cheap" labor; but, be very, very thoughtful. Much, much good luck and well-wishes to each and all.
 

kcabpilot

Senior
Aug 22, 2002
271
0
----------------
On 3/18/2003 8:40:22 PM UnitedChicago wrote:

Do you people really think liquidation isn''t possible?
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UnitedChicago: The "threat" of liquidation is exactly that - a threat. The reason I say this is because in the eyes, ears and minds of the frontline employees the "possibility" of liquidation, or dare I say - the "probability" of liquidation has been very real for some time now. This is not news to us.

I''ll say it again: This company''s main problem is the management that is bound and determined to "transform" it by a formula that has been hatched in an office cubicle, while staring at Powerpoint slides crammed with flashy scatter charts, bar graphs and exploding "PROSPERITY!" clipart. There has been absolutely ZERO utilization of this company''s greatest asset - that being the minds of the workers who know what needs to be done and how to do it. This "transformation plan" is not a team effort.

Right now the company is holding up the threat of contract abrogation (or however you spell that word I never heard of until a few months ago). The liquidation talk is for the judge''s benefit. I''m not sure if they are really that brain-dead but complete abrogation of all of the labor contracts - well that, my friend, truly will lead to only one thing;

complete liquidation.
 

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