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Looks like OTP is coming up.

Yeah, I'm just dying. 🙄

As I mentioned above, if this were part of UA's "turnaround strategy," you would be wetting yourself gleefully posting how silly and desparate it is and pointing out all its flaws.

UA didn't have the sense to be able to add aircraft to its fleet for five years.... I would hardly call that anything to emulate.

flyhigh,
do tell us about the subsidies to Berlin cause I think that will be news to alot of us. Somehow I doubt if subsidies are being handed out when two carriers are beating each other over the head to serve the route.

there is truth to what DLFlyer says. But the bottom line is that there are PROFITABLE opportunities for DL to expand its network. And that is what you folks just can't get over.... DL can manage to throw darts at a map and still come up with a profit margin that equals very conservative AA and beat both UA and everybody's poster child of responsibility CO. Maybe, just maybe, DL does know what it's doing. Or else several other airlines don't.
 
The 757's in AA's fleet didn't mix (different engines). AA is working on streamlining the fleet...
AA is obviously a dumb airline with terrible management. Smart airlines like Delta have a complex fleet, by taking 777-200LRs with GE90s to mix with their 777-200ERs with RR Trents. Two different engines for a 10 plane fleet type in 2008. Sheer and utter brilliance. AA needs to get a clue.
 
I could have sworn that this thread was going to be about Delta's improved 'on time performance.'

In fact, I had to read a few posts before I realized that OTP was (of all things) Bucharest!
 
World...DL got kind of screwed on Berlin. Basically, it was going to be for one carrier, which is normal. Berlin, as we all know has never been able to sustain service to the US though. Everything was all signed etc., DL was getting the subsidy. The city then decided that since two carriers really wanted to serve the market, they would subsidize both. DL was pretty worried it wouldn't work given that the 763 is too big for the market. CO decided to use the 752. One of two things is happenning...the mkt is doing much better than expected or (more likely) both are losing money but neither is giving up because of ego. Glen & Bob at DL are not giving into their former employer (CO)...either way, this is one of a very few instances where two carriers are getting a subsidy. Or did when it started. Not sure if it has run out or not.
 
WH,
did it ever occur to you that maybe engine commonality is not the big deal that alot of people make it out to be - including AA? Most of the costs in running incompatible fleets come from the cockpit crews, not from maintenance. Modern engines are designed to remain on the wing for years at a time. They also can transmit fault codes and performance information to a central site for evaluation by a pretty small but highly trained group of people; there simply are not hundreds of engine experts throughout an airline other than those that do overhauls - and the overhaul function is becoming increasingly contracted out.

I have heard many times that DL maintains AA's PW2037 engines on the ex-TW 757s while AA maintains DL's RR Trents on the 777ERs. There's probably a good chance that DL would buy GE's maintenance services on the GE90 since there are even fewer airlines that operate that engine at the thrusts needed for the LR.

DL operates a fleet of 763s that consist of 2 GE and 1 PW engine types. Although DL chose the GE engine for its first 767s, it went with Pratt for their 1st ERs, and then switched back to GE engines on the later ERs - driven more by economics than commonality concerns.

IIRC, AA mechanics managed to oversee the near destruction of a 767 in an uncontrolled engine failure despite AA operating all GE engines on its 767s. So maybe even having one engine type doesn't mean everything will turn out ok.


World...DL got kind of screwed on Berlin. Basically, it was going to be for one carrier, which is normal. Berlin, as we all know has never been able to sustain service to the US though. Everything was all signed etc., DL was getting the subsidy. The city then decided that since two carriers really wanted to serve the market, they would subsidize both. DL was pretty worried it wouldn't work given that the 763 is too big for the market. CO decided to use the 752. One of two things is happenning...the mkt is doing much better than expected or (more likely) both are losing money but neither is giving up because of ego. Glen & Bob at DL are not giving into their former employer (CO)...either way, this is one of a very few instances where two carriers are getting a subsidy. Or did when it started. Not sure if it has run out or not.

I'm pretty sure there is no subsidy now.

Actually, last year's DOT statistics show that DL and CO both had comparable load factors on their respective TXL flights, despite DL operating a larger aircraft (which also allows cargo).

These "because you fly there I have to also" additions help no one but CO is obviously hell bent on doing it by adding BCN along with several other cities this summer. There is alot of testosterone in the airline industry and certainly among network executives but as long as one carrier continues the cycle of horning into another carrier's actions, the cycle will continue. CO may have rained on DL's party but I'm sure CO sees a revitalized DL as more of a threat to CO than the other way around. DL's 767s will open up cities like OTP that will be out of range for the 757, the only real growth plane CO has right now. Sure they can pull a 767 to start a new route but they will be walking away from business in western Europe just as DL builds up its position from NYC to that region.

Given that DL reported a higher operating margin for the most recent quarter despite starting up all those new routes tells me that DL is not the pushover that other carriers think they are - or that CO is as strong as many portray them.
 
"US-based airline Delta Air Lines could introduce direct Romania-US flights next year. The American operator is now in talks with the representatives of the Henri Coanda International Airport of Bucharest (AIHCB, the former Otopeni). "Delta Air Lines has expressed interest in future operations from the Henri Coanda Airport," stated Valentin Iordache, AIHCB's head of external relations, quality and marketing. Delta Air Lines officials confirmed talks. "Part of the company's strategy is to assess possibilities for expansion, but no decision has been made in this regard yet. We are evaluating new markets and new opportunities, but we have to take into account all the elements, such as the traffic between the two countries."
Big deal...they've already been there b4 and dropped it, as well as a few others, with PA's A310's that Mr Allen brilliantly acquired.
 
I don't believe OTP ever had 310 service by DL. OTP was served from FRA w/ 727s.

As for the 310s, perhaps it was similar to the AA/TW asset acquisition with one big difference. DL got rid of the planes but kept the people while AA dumped the people as fast as it could and then started paring the fleet.

For a country that has no transoceanic air service, DL's proposal to serve Romania is a big deal whether you want to acknowledge it or not.
 
WH,
did it ever occur to you that maybe engine commonality is not the big deal that alot of people make it out to be - including AA? Most of the costs in running incompatible fleets come from the cockpit crews, not from maintenance. Modern engines are designed to remain on the wing for years at a time.
While the actual maintenance itself is not a big deal, I believe that you are still overlooking a major cost element involved with a second B777 engine type -- the cost of a spare engine that would otherwise not be needed by Delta if the new B777s had RR engines similar to the current fleet. But since the B777-200LRs (the order for which is still not confirmed, BTW) are not offered with RR engines, such a choice is not possible. And with GE90 engines going for around $10 million apiece, that's not a small consideration.
 
...World, BCN has been on CO's list of adds for quite some time...since before 9/11. To say it's being added for bravado reasons is not reality. DL is adding Atlantic because it can. Is there some overlap, yes, but it's because the same people ran both shows, but it's hardly worry on CO's part.
 
I don't believe OTP ever had 310 service by DL. OTP was served from FRA w/ 727s.

As for the 310s, perhaps it was similar to the AA/TW asset acquisition with one big difference. DL got rid of the planes but kept the people while AA dumped the people as fast as it could and then started paring the fleet.

For a country that has no transoceanic air service, DL's proposal to serve Romania is a big deal whether you want to acknowledge it or not.
Like FBU, ARN, CPH, that DL dropped like a bomb in the late 90's when the going got tough, as well as all the pacific routes out of PDX, LAX. DL's track record of pulling out of "tough markets", both domestic & international, is appalling.
I will say that the scheduling, return to some of the past abandoned destinations, and new service is a remarkable improvement over years past...looks like someone in "Mecca" finally took note of US Air's dominance in the Caribbean over DL as CLT at one time had more Caribbean flights by US than ATL had by DL.
 
you make it sound like no other airline has ever pulled out of an int'l route. How about AA's large pulldown from Asia this year, or US' pulldown of Latin America from FLL, or UA's pulldown of S. America, or.....

remember that some of those cities were served from JFK with A310s which DL dumped because they couldn't perform. Now that DL is converting up to 30 767s to int'l configuration and acquiring at least 10 tranatlantic capable 757s, DL will certainly be able to start returning to some of the cities it once served. The fact that DL now has the lowest costs among the US network carriers which also happen to be 25-40% lower than European carriers doesn't hurt either.
 
you make it sound like no other airline has ever pulled out of an int'l route. How about AA's large pulldown from Asia this year, or US' pulldown of Latin America from FLL, or UA's pulldown of S. America, or.....

remember that some of those cities were served from JFK with A310s which DL dumped because they couldn't perform. Now that DL is converting up to 30 767s to int'l configuration and acquiring at least 10 tranatlantic capable 757s, DL will certainly be able to start returning to some of the cities it once served. The fact that DL now has the lowest costs among the US network carriers which also happen to be 25-40% lower than European carriers doesn't hurt either.
I'm not arguing the point of present expansion, which is sorely needed, but the past deeds which contributed to the mess. What DL is doing now, in some cases, is reintroduction of previously abandoned routes like OTP,BUD,TXL,CPH, yet still the absence of service to HAM,ARN,FBU. How is it that DL could not have any ETOPS equipped 757's out of over 100 aircraft, yet all of the other carriers have them... and who's the bonehead who chose to purchase the 764's instead of 777's. The 764's have great seating capacity in DL's sardine can configuration, but reduced pax or cargo capacity on long haul flights, like CVG-HNL or ATL-HNL. I've seen DL pull back too many times from competitive markets in the past 40yrs anytime another carrier invades their turf. DL is a major east coast carrier, but a third rate carrier(behind AA,UA,WN,US,AS) west of the Mississippi, and this needs to be addressed with something more than RJ's.
 
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