Low-wage Delta workers in NYC set for raise

[Kev3188]

Kevin,
with all due respect, this is a discussion board that necessarily involves divergent opinions.

Indeed.

What's that have to do with your compulsion to constatntly go off topic?

How does that address your insistence on pointing to someone else when called out on it?

 

[WorldTraveler]

once again, I didn't go off topic.

You can't accept that 700 is the one who mentioned the MAT and I responded to his comment.

If are so hellbent in keeping topics from going changing, then you need to demonstrate that you are willing to control the conversation with people who present points that are anti-DL or pro-labor movement just as much as you are with those who make pro-DL or what you perceive as anti-labor comments.

I have NEVER seen you tell anyone else to stay on track unless it is someone who has an opposing point of view to yours.

You need to accept that on an open discussion forum, you will have to deal with diverse opinions and you have to demonstrate that you are capable of defending your ideas, regardless of who and what might present an opposing idea.

The issue isn't about taking threads off topic. It is about other people posting opinions that are contrary to yours.

If you can't handle opposing opinions, then you either need to learn how to do so or not participate in anything in life where someone challenges your ideas.

And if you are so deadset on keeping the thread on topic, how does this comment fit into it?
 

No shortage of Ready Reserve employees at any of the NYC area airports. Operations at LGA's Marine Terminal are farmed out, as are cleaning, lav/water service and more. Not sure who handles regional flights. At JFK, many of those same functions are outsourced, as are some bag room functions. I'm sure I'm missing a few.

 

[Kev3188]

It's always someone else, isn't it?

 

[737823]

The fact is what were once solidly middle class jobs are now $9/hr no benefit gigs even in high cost areas like NYC and SF. Some here have suggested that the solution is to organize the regionals and DL but labor (several unions) represent contract handlers and they still qualify for food stamps, Medicaid, section 8 housing, etc. Labor should recognize this and change course. Restrictive/onerous work rules have yielded certain workgroups uneconomical and as a result carriers have pursued outsourcing to contain costs. It's going to require a new direction from leadership and all participants in the labor market for this to change.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

Josh,
your point is perfectly valid but there is a much larger principle at play here.

No one in life will achieve what they want if they are unable to honestly admit what is really going on in the things in their life that matter to them. Doesn't matter if the issue is marriage, corporate strategy, or religion.

What we repeatedly say on this board is that a number of the most vocal labor "leaders" go into full attack mode when anyone says anything critical about the labor movement. They work overtime to attack what is successful and works but seem completely unable to accept that the labor movement in the US is at the lowest levels of any industrialized nation and is viewed as insignificant by the vast majority of Americans. Add in that hundreds of thousands of union jobs have been eliminated in the airline industry including in acquisitions where even formerly union employees aren't interested in unions any ore and it should be very clear that the labor movement needs to do not only some serious soul searching but also restrategizing.

Attacking those who speak the truth on this forum won't change the reality of what is happening in the real world one iota.

that type of behavior only shows how truly poor the labor movement is in finding people who are capable of changing the reality of the labor movement, including in the airline industry.

 

[700UW]

once again, I didn't go off topic.

You can't accept that 700 is the one who mentioned the MAT and I responded to his comment.

If are so hellbent in keeping topics from going changing, then you need to demonstrate that you are willing to control the conversation with people who present points that are anti-DL or pro-labor movement just as much as you are with those who make pro-DL or what you perceive as anti-labor comments.

I have NEVER seen you tell anyone else to stay on track unless it is someone who has an opposing point of view to yours.

You need to accept that on an open discussion forum, you will have to deal with diverse opinions and you have to demonstrate that you are capable of defending your ideas, regardless of who and what might present an opposing idea.

The issue isn't about taking threads off topic. It is about other people posting opinions that are contrary to yours.

If you can't handle opposing opinions, then you either need to learn how to do so or not participate in anything in life where someone challenges your ideas.

And if you are so deadset on keeping the thread on topic, how does this comment fit into it?
 

 
 

it's ok to question DL... but those who want to question DL should also be asking why other airlines haven't done the same thing. The more heavily unionized airlines haven't done it.
 

All operations at the MAT are on regional jets as well. We aren't in the days when the Shuttles operated with 130-150 seats on mainline aircraft and had standby aircraft ready to roll and extra sections running 15 minutes before scheduled departure at peak times.

I want to see ALL DL operations flown by DL mainline aircraft and worked by DL employees above and below wing but that isn't the reality of the industry.

You also fail to note that a large percentage of the flights from the C and D terminals are RJ flights and worked by DL employees AW and BW.

Once again, DL is doing more to bring more of its flying back to mainline than any other airline. And DL ground handles a larger DCI operation at ATL than all but a couple mainline hubs in the US.

Of course there is something of a political element involved in doing something like this - but why didn't other airlines that had union employees do the same? Why weren't AA and UA's unions successful in demanding that their companies do the same thing for their contractors?

And you can argue about the wage that any company should pay but at what point should any employer just start paying higher salaries because the cost of living for workers in the local makes it tight to maintain a decent standard of living?

Let's be honest that even $10/hour is not a very high salary in NYC but then why do you reward people at the bottom of the job market by pushing their salaries higher and higher into the salaries that other workers have worked to obtain?

In countries that have allowed wage rates to escalate across the board, the evidence is overwhelming that the cost of living goes up just as fast which lives the people at the bottom of the wage pyramid in the same relative position. Assuming a non-abusive starting wage, the only valid way to push salaries up from the bottom is to have the incentive to work to make a higher wage. Further, the economy of a country starts to break down in its unity if some locales have wages and costs of living that are significantly disconnected from the averages of the rest of the country.

Um nope, you brought up the MAT first not I.
 
Dont let the facts get in your way.

 

[Kev3188]

The fact is what were once solidly middle class jobs are now $9/hr no benefit gigs even in high cost areas like NYC and SF. Some here have suggested that the solution is to organize the regionals and DL but labor (several unions) represent contract handlers and they still qualify for food stamps, Medicaid, section 8 housing, etc. Labor should recognize this and change course. Restrictive/onerous work rules have yielded certain workgroups uneconomical and as a result carriers have pursued outsourcing to contain costs. It's going to require a new direction from leadership and all participants in the labor market for this to change.

Josh

 
I wouldn't disagree. I think this boost in pay- paltry as it may be- is a direct result of those involved finally standing up and saying "enough."  Like I said earlier; companies won't do this because they should, or it's the right thing to do; if that was the case, they'd have done it months ago. They'll only do it when they have to; whether it's pressure from the market, or wanting to avoid negative publicity.  I like what we're seeing here. Let's hope this is a sign of larger progress to come.

Josh,
your point is perfectly valid but there is a much larger principle at play here.

No one in life will achieve what they want if they are unable to honestly admit what is really going on in the things in their life that matter to them. Doesn't matter if the issue is marriage, corporate strategy, or religion.

What we repeatedly say on this board is that a number of the most vocal labor "leaders" go into full attack mode when anyone says anything critical about the labor movement. They work overtime to attack what is successful and works but seem completely unable to accept that the labor movement in the US is at the lowest levels of any industrialized nation and is viewed as insignificant by the vast majority of Americans. Add in that hundreds of thousands of union jobs have been eliminated in the airline industry including in acquisitions where even formerly union employees aren't interested in unions any ore and it should be very clear that the labor movement needs to do not only some serious soul searching but also restrategizing.

Attacking those who speak the truth on this forum won't change the reality of what is happening in the real world one iota.

that type of behavior only shows how truly poor the labor movement is in finding people who are capable of changing the reality of the labor movement, including in the airline industry.

 
GMAFB. Nobody's "attacking" you for speaking what's on your mind. It's your complete inability to "own" what you write that I'm calling out. Even now, you can't help but point to someone else.
 
Enough with the victim complex already. I'd like to discuss this specific article. Can you either get over yourself, or get out of the way?

 

[WorldTraveler]

Of course you want to discuss the article now. After trashing others for taking the thread off topic even as you did the same.

Where did I say I didn't own what I wrote? I repeatedly have said that I did write what I wrote about the MAT, but you can't seem to accept that I was responding to a comment that someone else made. You then repeated the same outsourcing comment at the MAT that he did, but somehow it is off limits for me to respond to even the first abbreviated comment?

Again, the issue is that you don't want anyone else to criticize anything about the labor movement yet you stand ready to pounce on anyone and then kick, beg, and scream for others to stand by silently while you make your points.

That's not the way the world works. Not here, and not anywhere else. If your ideas are superior, they will stand on their own two feet, Kevin.

If your ideas are lacking - and repeatedly the basis of the labor movement has been shown to be lacking based on its continual decline - then you better look deep into your own soul and figure out how to get on the right side of the the truth.

It isn't someone else's fault, Kevin. It is yours. The sooner you quit lashing out at everyone else and come up with a plan that will allow what you say is so important to you to win, then you might begin to succeed at your goals in life

As for the article, given that there are people who showed up yesterday at the old rate of pay a
nd will show up tomorrow, you can't argue that the only reason pay is being increased is because labor stood up for itself. The market was working and still is. Even without pay raises for contractors that service AA, UA, and B6, there will be people who will come to work for them.

You got the part right about the job market doesn't work on good will. It works by connecting those who want to work with those who need a job.

The government inserted itself into the process, perhaps because of influence from labor and I have no problems with them doing so and in increasing wages in NYC.

But let's also be clear that the wages are going up even though there have been and will continue to do work at lower rates of pay.

DL, perhaps being the most willing to suck up to the government, made the first move. Other companies are willing to fight to keep their costs from going up.

Further, many of these jobs didn't exist years ago. The job functions were middle class jobs with benefits but the number of jobs has increased with deregulation but as new passengers have been added to the system at lower fares, wages for the industry and its support services overall have been reduced.

Finally, as much as anyone might want to argue otherwise, the biggest single factor in limiting the growth of full time benefitted positions in the US right now is ObamaCare. Businesses have consistently said they have no intention of hiring full-time workers if they can hire part-time, non-benefitted positions.

If labor wants to increase the number of full-time benefitted positions in the US, they have to deal with the real roots of why business says they aren't willing to add them.

 

[Kev3188]

...And the pattern continues...
 
It's always someone else, isn't it?
 
Help me out here; is it a compulsion you struggle to control, or is it all just theater?

 

[700UW]

I bet he set up a cubicle in his house that resembled the one he had at Delta, so he posts like he is at work still.
 
Bet he has pics of RA and other executives all over the house, and is front door must look like the entrance to DL's HDQ.

 

[737823]

I bet he set up a cubicle in his house that resembled the one he had at Delta, so he posts like he is at work still.
 
Bet he has pics of RA and other executives all over the house, and is front door must look like the entrance to DL's HDQ.

Does your house have pics of Buffy, Roach, and Sito? Does it look like 9000 Machinists Place? Looks like a pretty impressive facility to me, wouldn't surprise me in the least if they had services apartments on the premises. Don't they have a staff of maids paid $70k+ benefits?

Josh

 

[700UW]

Do you have pics of this in your house?
 

 

[737823]

Nope my home has pics of my family, childhood dog, friends, and original art purchased throughout my travels.

Josh

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Does your house have pics of Buffy, Roach, and Sito? Does it look like 9000 Machinists Place? Looks like a pretty impressive facility to me, wouldn't surprise me in the least if they had services apartments on the premises. Don't they have a staff of maids paid $70k+ benefits?
Josh

Placid Harbor is where they have the dorms and training campus. It is a nice campus. I don't know about how much staff get paid there.

The IAMAW made a good investment for the members by buying this place many years ago. It is worth big money today.

http://winpisinger.iamaw.org/general/welcome.cfm

Back on topic, I wonder when NJ will enact something similar?

 

[737823]

Placid Harbor is where they have the dorms and training campus. It is a nice campus. I don't know about how much staff get paid there.
The IAMAW made a good investment for the members by buying this place many years ago. It is worth big money today. http://winpisinger.iamaw.org/general/welcome.cfm

Thanks I was talking the HQ building adjacent to Andrews Air Force Base in Upper Marlboro, MD.

Josh