M&R LBO2 Vote Predictions

[DonnaU]

I know how it works. You must also agree as u have no answer.

A strike would force AA to negotiate

 

[Frank Szabo]

Informer, I still don't understand how you can force someone to talk to you. I've had to negotiate many things in my life but I've never been able to make someone continue to talk if they don't want to. There comes the time when the deal is made or you walk away from the table and look somewhere else to make a deal. If AA is done talking I cant see a way to force them to talk.

I won't be as critical of you as others but - if one side wants improvements and the other side dummys up, you are correct - being forced to sit in the same room doesn't accomplish a lot.

Our situation is a cross betwixt poker, a chess game, and a real war. In our case, the company has played the "poor, pitiful us" card (filed for Chapter 11 Protection) and the courts, biased as they are, go along most often with the company's wishes - ie, they're better armed, especially with the prefile shopping for judges that went on. We, on the other hand, get to protect ourselves as best we can with the sticks and stones the RLA/legal system allows us, being nasty old union members and such, etc. and et al.

As with a poker game or warfare, one side must make the other's untenable, evoking a surrender and cessation of hostilities - ie, from a bluff to make the other side reconsider its position and fold, or to pound away at the other side until few are left standing and demanding a surrender. The chess game part is the planning involved leading to an eventual cessation of hostilities.

Our position is best summed up by this cartoon due to the RLA's legal restrictions:

[sharedmedia=core:attachments:9471]

 

[Bob Owens]

Informer, I still don't understand how you can force someone to talk to you. I've had to negotiate many things in my life but I've never been able to make someone continue to talk if they don't want to. There comes the time when the deal is made or you walk away from the table and look somewhere else to make a deal. If AA is done talking I cant see a way to force them to talk.

Thats just it, if AA says they are refusing to talk then the NMB has to release us. So they will never say they are unwilling to talk unless they are ready to take us on as far as self help. They will always agree to meet, then not agree to anything and have Don make sure that things do not get heated in negotiations so the charade can continue.

If AA is facing a strike they will talk. This isnt 1995, they dont have thousands of mechanics out there in training to work on our aircraft, the planes arent flying half full and the MROs are booked up. When it comes to a showdaown we are in a better spot than we've been in many many years, the biggest threat is our own fears.

 

[DonnaU]

I won't be as critical of you as others but - if one side wants improvements and the other side dummys up, you are correct - being forced to sit in the same room doesn't accomplish a lot.

Our situation is a cross betwixt poker, a chess game, and a real war. In our case, the company has played the "poor, pitiful us" card (filed for Chapter 11 Protection) and the courst, biased as they are, go along most often with the company's wishes - ie, they're better armed. We, on the other hand, get to protect ourselves as best we can with the sticks and stones the legal system allows us, being nasty old union members and such, etc. and et al.

As with a poker game or warfare, one side must make the other's untenable, evoking a surrender and cessation of hostilities - ie, from a bluff to make the other side reconsider its position and fold, or to pound away at the other side until few are left standing and demanding a surrender. The chess game part is the planning involved leading to an eventual truce.

Our position is best summed up by this cartoon due to legal restrictions:

Thank you Frank for explaining so I could understand. At least one person could understand the horse analogy. If you ever see Red tell him I'm NOT a troll!!!! Thanks again Frank.

 

[DonnaU]

Thats just it, if AA says they are refusing to talk then the NMB has to release us. So they will never say they are unwilling to talk unless they are ready to take us on as far as self help. They will always agree to meet, then not agree to anything and have Don make sure that things do not get heated in negotiations so the charade can continue.

If AA is facing a strike they will talk. This isnt 1995, they dont have thousands of mechanics out there in training to work on our aircraft, the planes arent flying half full and the MROs are booked up. When it comes to a showdaown we are in a better spot than we've been in many many years, the biggest threat is our own fears.

And thank you Bob !!!

 

[Vortilon]

Looks to be limited primaraly to semi-skilled work only. I'm sure there will be plenty of work for the AMT in the cabin after this is voted in. Besides, it looks to be a stepping stone for the OSM to get credit to become an AMT so its good for the profession. Have the lower classes learn the whole complexity of the aircraft, starting with the semi-skilled work and advancing from there. So in the future we will have better more knowledgable well rounded mechanics maintaining our birds.... 😉

Not our problem. Why don't they go to A&P school, or learn the trade in the military - like most of have, on our own dime and time!

 

[Vortilon]

You did what you felt you needed to and that is all that matters. Whether you Vote Yes or You Vote No as long as your decision comes from within that is true Integrity. If the U.S. companies were bound to keep maint. work within the U.S. then yes I would agree anyone who settled for less would be wrong but with China and South America and South of America being in the mix and the amount of people that would hit the street in Tulsa flooding the job market makes some think twice about making the stands they made in the 1930's versus trying to provide for your family. Both choices are full of speculation and armchair lawyers, judges, fortune tellers and hecklers.

Kinda fun supporting one of your many aliases. It almost doesn't sound contrived. Is that you Raptorboy?

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

I know how it works. You must also agree as u have no answer.

You know how it works yet you are asking Informer
to explain it to you.

"Making" the company talk to you is not like you
trying to make your neighbor talk to you.

Any other questions you know the answer for that
you need explaining?

 

[700UW]

Did a strike force NW to negotiate with AMFA?

Nope, you forget if you strike under the RLA it also gives the right for the company to impose its own terms and replace you.

 

[TWU informer]

Did a strike force NW to negotiate with AMFA?

Nope, you forget if you strike under the RLA it also gives the right for the company to impose its own terms and replace you.

What's your solution Lapdog?
Lay around for free food and water and hope the master takes you for a walk in the park?

 

[700UW]

Ah once again you have to call names cause you cant debate?

You can only vote how you feel, you are in no position of power when the laws are stacked against you.

I voted no four times on our concessionary cbas, and the members decided, and I walked on to greener pastures as I would not work under the Chapter 11 abrogation CBA.

Does it makes you feel like a big man when you call others names when they point out that a strike didnt solve the issues at NW?

And the courts have ruled you cant strike upon an abrogation.

So whats your grand plan?

 

[TWU informer]

And the courts have ruled you cant strike upon an abrogation.

So whats your grand plan?

My Grand Plan would include every airline employee forming a Non-Political Coalition and on a given day shutting the transportation system down regardless of the law.

The Middle Class cannot sit back and abide by the laws, if money is going to control the law makers.

If they wish to remove our influence from law making, then we need to stop abiding by the laws.

Currently all we have are money gamers, and political campaigners in the AFL-CIO that worsen the problem by acting out the same worthless path to a solution.
You Industrial Unionist are too damn busy bashing those that don't see eye to eye with the proven failures and therefore keep playing the same old tired losing battle, using the same old tired rules and laws.

Grow a set and do something. Your middle class is clamoring for relief, but that is not heard, and will not be heard until every man, woman, and child is dependent on the socialist government your politics keeps advocating. That will be too damn late!

 

[MCI transplant]

My Grand Plan would include every airline employee forming a Non-Political Coalition and on a given day shutting the transportation system down regardless of the law.

The Middle Class cannot sit back and abide by the laws, if money is going to control the law makers.

If they wish to remove our influence from law making, then we need to stop abiding by the laws.

Currently all we have are money gamers, and political campaigners in the AFL-CIO that worsen the problem by acting out the same worthless path to a solution.
You Industrial Unionist are too damn busy bashing those that don't see eye to eye with the proven failures and therefore keep playing the same old tired losing battle, using the same old tired rules and laws.

Grow a set and do something. Your middle class is clamoring for relief, but that is not heard, and will not be heard until every man, woman, and child is dependent on the socialist government your politics keeps advocating. That will be too damn late!

Your plan is to go to jail! Are you willing to do that? ------ Before you jump in and answeer, think about it? I'll tell you one thing, those in the TWU won't!

 

[aapitbull]

Your plan is to go to jail! Are you willing to do that? ------ Before you jump in and answeer, think about it? I'll tell you one thing, those in the TWU won't!

If a thousand do it they cannot lock us all up if everyone in the industry did it things would change overnight. Yes I am ready to go to jail if that is what it takes.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

My Grand Plan would include every airline employee forming a Non-Political Coalition and on a given day shutting the transportation system down regardless of the law.

The Middle Class cannot sit back and abide by the laws, if money is going to control the law makers.

If they wish to remove our influence from law making, then we need to stop abiding by the laws.

Currently all we have are money gamers, and political campaigners in the AFL-CIO that worsen the problem by acting out the same worthless path to a solution.
You Industrial Unionist are too damn busy bashing those that don't see eye to eye with the proven failures and therefore keep playing the same old tired losing battle, using the same old tired rules and laws.

Grow a set and do something. Your middle class is clamoring for relief, but that is not heard, and will not be heard until every man, woman, and child is dependent on the socialist government your politics keeps advocating. That will be too damn late!

Our unions throw money at the Democratic party all the time. What have they done in return? Mr. Obama (who I did vote for) had both the house and senate at one point in his term. The RLA and BK laws could have been changed to make them more unbiased toward big business but that didn't happen. They took our money and did nothing to help us. That tells me they don't need our money so let's not give it to them. I would love to see everyone take a week off and let the airlines rot. Let's see all the execs threaten to fire all of us if we don't go back to work. Of Course Delta mechanics would still go to work like the good non-union people they are, but their pilots are union and they would stay out. The laws favor the airlines and the people in Washington don't want to help us so we must help ourselves. Think of what would happen. Airline workers would then be treated with RESPECT from their management people. Even AA would have to eat crow. Ah but that is a pipe dream. Many folks just in Tulsa would refuse to stay out.
The bottom line is there are lots of lousy jobs out there with lousy to zero benefits, and not many with good pay and benefits. This used to be one of those. Why don't you yes voters leave and get one of those other jobs and leave us no voters the chance to keep what little pay and benefits that we have left and a chance to get something back. We could then toss the TWU out too and things would get better right away. Vote No or Go!!!!