Management Pensions

[skyguy]

Please understand the difference between "pensions" and "401k's". All management defined pension plans (those guaranteed by the gov't) have been elimated by the company. As the 401(k) plans are bascially individual accounts managad by the employee, and only the unvested amount is controlled by the company, these plans can not be terminated. The company can, and has, decreased and/or eliminated it's portion of contribution to these accounts.

 

[SoldWholeSale]

A little off the subject, but heard a rumor that possibly Mr. Ashby has resigned??

Anyone?

SH

 

[PITbull]

Please understand the difference between "pensions" and "401k's".  All management defined pension plans (those guaranteed by the gov't) have been elimated by the company.  As the 401(k) plans are bascially individual accounts managad by the employee, and only the unvested amount is controlled by the company, these plans can not be terminated.  The company can, and has, decreased and/or eliminated it's portion of contribution to these accounts.

[post="281938"][/post]​

Sky,

Senior managment has defined pension contributions (which is different than a defined pension plan). Their pension contributions DO exist and are still solvent, alive and well. Only Labor's Defined pension plans have been terminated. Pilots have a "defined contribution plan" in its place, and Labor has just ratified a similar plan in their latest contracts.

401K is a completely different animal.

I make it my business to know.

 

[Old PSA]

Not to beat a subject to death but the defined benefit pension plan for "Certain US Airways Employees" was terminated in 1992 not frozen (legal difference only). Those "certain" employees where employees who were not covered by a union contract or individual contract(vice-president, etc). The 401K plan had its employer contribution and match added 1 year later to replace terminated pension plan. Of course, in typical US fashion, several union groups were able to force the company to contribute to their 401K accounts in addition to continuing their defined benefit pension plans. Later certain additional senior managers were given individual employment contracts which included defined benefit pensions at various credit year levels (depended on individual, but was not in relationship to their years of service). Of course this particular pension plan has just kept going and going and going....in fact is still going. And of course these same individual also receive special contributions to their 401K plans along with bonuses, etc.

 

[PITbull]

PSA,

I believe those certain past CEO and execs had their defined pension plans terminated in this latest BK.

Only those execs who took a cash pension payout were able to luck out like Wolf and Gangwal. Past CEOs and execs had their's terminated.

 

[700UW]

No union forced the company to contribute to their 401Ks.

The IAM Mechanic and Related had a letter of agreement that estbalished the 401K program for its employees. The letter contained language that if ANY unionized group of employees recieved a 401K "company match" that the IAM M&R group would recieve the same match.

The TWU and US negotiated a "match" for its 401K and the IAM requested the same. Ofcourse the company denies it, it goes to arbitration and the IAM prevails.

See when BOTH sides agree to something it is not forcing the company to do anything, they signed on the dotted line just like the union.

Once again, don't let the facts get in your way.

 

[SpinDoc]

That was for senior directors and below who had a defined pension plan that was frozen in 1992. However, Senior Executives are under contract and those are and have been very lucrative and very lavish.

[post="281914"][/post]​

SpinDoc replies:

I can say with a degree of certainty that
management personnel below Senior Director
have two active plans. One plan is a 401K
and the other is a quasi-DBRP which was
until last year, fully funded by the company.
There are two accounts available to view
at 401K.com and only one is a traditional
401K. The quasi-DBRP can be cashed out
after 3 years of service if the employee is
terminated or terminates employment with
the company.

 

[Old PSA]

To Pit Bull,
I believe you are correct; however I remember that several 'deals' were done for several of the previous executives. I was really thinking about the crop of executives who came in with Wolf and after who were given retirement year credit for 20 years for entering the door.

to 700UW,

I consider it 'forcing' when a union goes to arbitration. I was just a little upset when this all when down. I had my pension terminated and then was fiven the 401K setup as a replacement and the mechanics justed added to their pension. And before you say contract and union and such.....don't, I understand but it does change my perception of fair and working for the same company and goals. (very naive I know)

 

[700UW]

Well it is not forcing it when it goes to arbitration, the process is in the Railway Labor Act for dispute resolution.

The letter in the contract was quite clear, it US matched any other unionized workers 401K then they were to match the M&R group. The mechanic and related did not add to their pension, if a member did not participate in the 401K, they did not get any match.

What do you suggest, let the company do as they please when they agreed to a legally and binding contract? You have to hold them accountable for their actions.

Apparently you do not have much experience when it comes to contract administration.

And maybe if your group did not take 4 votes to become unionized you would not have had your pension FROZEN, not terminated in 1992 and everyone Defined Benefit Plan was terminated this year. The choice was in your hands and you and your coworkers made the choice to be employees at will and let the company do as they please.

Like I said, don't let the facts get in your way.

 

[kiloromeo]

the managemnt plan was frozen in 91 and now is turned over to the PBGC. Any one after 91 was 401 k only.

 

[BottomFeeder]

the managemnt plan was frozen in 91 and now is turned over to the PBGC. Any one after 91 was 401 k only.

[post="281999"][/post]​

Are you saying the money that W&G got was a 401K?


Some returns for a 401K.

 

[BoeingBoy]

W&G had a DB pension plan patterned on the ones the unions had. The only difference was that they got 29 years credit the day they arrived on the property, so they were able to get a lump sum payout based on 30 years of service when they left.

Jim

 

[BottomFeeder]

W&G had a DB pension plan patterned on the ones the unions had. The only difference was that they got 29 years credit the day they arrived on the property, so they were able to get a lump sum payout based on 30 years of service when they left.

Jim

[post="282022"][/post]​

Jim,

If the pension had been frozen. How did W&G collect so much money? There must be another plan that the senior level guys have. Is this plan gone as well?

PitBull mentioned that the plan was funded prior to BK.

Did the unions fight to get this one terminated? Seems like every rock has not been over turned yet.

 

[BottomFeeder]

Sky,

Senior managment has defined pension contributions (which is different than a defined pension plan). Their pension contributions DO exist and are still solvent, alive and well. Only Labor's Defined pension plans have been terminated. Pilots have a "defined contribution plan" in its place, and Labor has just ratified a similar plan in their latest contracts.

401K is a completely different animal.

I make it my business to know.

[post="281944"][/post]​

PITbull,

First, We are going to miss you. Wishing you well.

Why can't the management pension be terminated? Have the unions tried?

Thanks

 

[Dea Certe]

Does it seem funny to anyone else that the only contracts managment sees fit to honor is their own?

Must be just another benefit for the good old boys clubs.

Dea