Mark Your Calendars...

[kcabpilot]

I don't think there is any real possibility of the company getting ratification of a 20% giveback from the Mecahnics within two weeks. I'm not sure they could ever get it. For one thing, they are still holding the retro money and threatening bk and nobody trusts these guys to honor an agreement even if they were to make one with them. That my freinds is the real problem.

The current management team (and whoever was pulling the strings to make Goodwin's lips move is still there) has not been successful with any endeavor they have undertaken. They are a bunch of followers without an original idea in their heads and you know what? They're gonna screw up this bk thing too. Just watch.

 

[UAL777flyer]

I think we should all take note of some interesting dates. The mechanics at US Airways, as we now know, have voted down the concession agreement. Unless a new deal is reached, September 10th is the hearing for the judge to decide on abrogating the contracts of the IAM and CWA at US. Our 30-day clock stops ticking around September 14th. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the IAM and AFA wait until that timeframe before deciding on making a deal with the company. I'd venture to say that if the bankruptcy judge tosses out those contracts at US, or makes major changes to them, the IAM and AFA will pony up quickly at UA. Why? Simple. Because the IAM and AFA at UA make more than their counterparts at US. We have the highest labor costs in the industry. What do you think a bankruptcy judge will decide once UA petitions to do the same thing if we file Chapter 11? So, my opinion is that if the IAM and AFA agree to a deal, it'll be at the 11th hour.

Hopefully, the CEO and other senior management changes we've all been waiting for with baited breath will be announced by week's end.

 

[kcabpilot]

UAL777flyer:

You speak as though the IAM leadership had some sort of control in this, they don't. It's the Mechanics who hold the votes and take it from me - they don't decide based on what the IAM recommends.

Also, the idea that on September 14 the judge is going to slam US Air Mechanics with a 30% paycut and UAL Mechanics are then going to rush to the poles begging for that 10.4% cut is, come on, maybe just a BIT unrealistic?

Aside from the fact that the Mechanics hold zero trust in current Management and therefore are very unlikely to pen any agreement with them there is still the factor of the retro pay that the company is holding. That amount pretty much covers the cuts they are asking for but no one has even suggested that the Mechanics just forgoe those retro payments and have their contribution bill stamped "paid in full"

Why? Because the company does not intend, in fact has NEVER intended to pay a dime of that retro pay.

And they wonder why we don't trust them.

 

[UnitedChicago]

I've long thought that one of the stronger negotiating chip is U's ch11. It's like the two got together and planned it.

It was obvious that management was letting the rumors of ch11 swirl prior to u's filing to pressure labor. Brace's biz week interview and the confirmation that ua hired bk lawyers (although it was after spet. 11 - another over reaction and mis interpretation by the press).

Then U files.

One thing for sure is that this will not be over on the imposed deadline. If progress is being made - I would imagine that they'll push the date back. Classic management - labor negotiations. I'd expect sides to break off talks as well for a time and then start talking again.

Any movement on the CEO rumors?? Is Bill Clinton now on the short list?! []

 

[UAL24]

IAM leadership did not endorse any paycut proposals at U. So apparently the mechanics did listen. UAL 777 I believe your assesment is dead accurate. U Mechs will get destroyed by a BK judge and that will send a clear message to the next BK victims. U is an excellent example of how our BK will go IF we have to enter it. Those that played ball before the filing will fair far better than those that didn't. Outsourcing of various maintenance jobs will occurr in quick and dramatic fashion following a BK.

 

[UAL777flyer]

kcabpilot,

You took my comments to the extreme. I was merely making note of the interesting timing of the dates up ahead. Nobody knows what the bankruptcy judge will decide when the hearing for US Airways to abrogate IAM and CWA contracts is held on September 10th. However, it wouldn't surprise me if the IAM, and to a slightly lesser extent the AFA, wait until that time to see what happens to the IAM and CWA at US before they jump on board with a voluntary paycut deal. If a judge were to honor most of the IAM and CWA contracts at US, I would think it gives the IAM and AFA some perceived leverage with which to call UA Senior Mgmt's bluff on bankruptcy.

In the end, nobody knows how a bankruptcy judge will rule on abrogating labor contracts. However, if past history is any indication, it is an extremely LARGE roll of the dice that rarely comes out in labor's favor. The cuts are coming one way or another. The easy way or the hard way.

 

[UAL777flyer]

mastermechanic,

I hate to put it this way once again, but if you honestly "don't give a f*ck anymore", than do those of us that do care a favor and leave now. If not, than I hope that those with that attitude are the junior guys who get laid off when we get to bankruptcy and massive cuts follow.

Maybe I'm naive, but I just don't get it. You say you don't care anymore and that your skills are highly marketable elsewhere and that the working conditions and pay/benefits are so much better elsewhere. If that's the case, why are you still here? I'd certainly love to know. The working conditions stink for a large majority of people throughout this company, not just mechanics. That is a large result of the incompetent and ineffective leadership we've suffered under for the last several years. But should we just throw in the towel and give up because of that? We've all worked hard to build this company into something great. Yes, a lot has been destroyed over the last couple of years. But it's nothing that cannot be fixed. But doing so requires the work of everyone, not just a select few.

The fact that you hate the IAM isn't entirely relevant here. They are the ones who are controlling the negotiations. If an agreement is reached that goes out for MR and the IAM recommends a "no" vote, do you really think the deal would get ratified against that? If so, THEN maybe I'd start to believe that the majority of mechanics want nothing to do with the IAM. But AMFA isn't on the property yet. So until that time, the IAM is who the company must deal with.

 

[kcabpilot]

----------------
On 8/29/2002 2:52:16 PM

IAM leadership did not endorse any paycut proposals at U. So apparently the mechanics did listen
----------------

So you think that the result of that vote was based on the Mechanics "listening" to IAM leadership?

Earth to UAL24....

You'd better stick to topics you know something about. You're damaging your credibility.

 

[mastermechanic]

YOU GUYS JUST DON'T GET IT DO YOU...THE MAJORITY OF MECHANICS HATE THE IAM!!! We cannot stand them and our doing our best to get rid of them. Yes, we know we are fighting a losing battle, yes we know a judge will probably kill us...and we don't give a f**k anymore...DO YOU GET IT!! Now stomp on us, yell at us...and then get on those planes we don't care about anymore.

 

[kcabpilot]

So what about the retro money? Why hasn't it been suggested that we offer that as payment for our "contribution"?

Is there anyone left here that actually believes the company EVER intended to pay a single dime of that?

 

[mastermechanic]

If all the planets are aligning to destroy the mechanics, outsource etc., then let it happen. I am so numb now I wouldn't care what kind of deal is the outcome. This slow death is killing everybody anyways, and it was supposed to be just a job. I know the system is broken, I know this "unionism" is ineffective, and unjust. People who should make twice the amount don't, and those who do not deserve half of what they make, do. People who put out any effort are characterized as company men or lickballs, while those "union" guys play ha-ha he-he games (gee, I cannot believe I get paid to hang out). The whole thing is a perverted joke, and the base of this house is just about to give way...