Michigan Right to Work

[737823]

" In fact, public-sector employment (i.e. federal, state, and local government jobs) declined in 10 of the past 12 months, in sharp contrast to 29 consecutive months of private-sector job growth. Indeed, falling public employment has been among the largest contributors to unemployment in the United States since the end of the Great Recession."

I guess we need another Republican president to bring back more big government. The charts show a big reason why the unemployment numbers were stagnant over the last 4 years.

http://www.brookings...eenstone-looney

Misleading and poorly designed chart, specifically the scale. It makes it look like there has been a large falloff in government employment but in reality any decrease has been insignificant, government payrolls are still bloated and their health & retiree benefits are killing budgets. I've always been of the belief we have too many government workers and reforms are needed. Until the Wisconsin reforms government workers and their union allies were untouchable but I think the Wisconsin reforms have demonstrated that the public sees government workers as out of touch and in many cases greedy. The reforms are not limited to Wisconsin, other states and municipalities are pursuing similar initiatives.

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

Untouchable? To steal your phrase, that's "misleading," if not outright false. WI gov't workers agreed repeatedly to contribute their fair share, and do whatever it took to get things on track. Walker didn't care, because frankly, the alleged "budget crisis" was a manufactured one. His goal (or rather his handlers) was-and still is- to bust unions. Period.

And if the (at least for) now repealed Act 10 was to be such a boon for job creation, where are they already?

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Misleading and poorly designed chart, specifically the scale. It makes it look like there has been a large falloff in government employment but in reality any decrease has been insignificant, government payrolls are still bloated and their health & retiree benefits are killing budgets.

Josh

Rebut the chart with your own then. The Brookings Institution is not some obscure Democratic propaganda machine.

BTW, BCBS standard plan health care for any government employee is $400.14/month.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Yeah, due to age related retirements.
Still Obama had added some 192,000.

BS. Show me.

 

[737823]

Untouchable? To steal your phrase, that's "misleading," if not outright false. WI gov't workers agreed repeatedly to contribute their fair share, and do whatever it took to get things on track. Walker didn't care, because frankly, the alleged "budget crisis" was a manufactured one. His goal (or rather his handlers) was-and still is- to bust unions. Period.

And if the (at least for) now repealed Act 10 was to be such a boon for job creation, where are they already?

Until recently organized labor has been in the league of the AARP, NRA, etc as a political third rail. We're just now seeing politicians from both parties realizing that it's time for the gravy train to end and public sector workers need to pay their fair share and face the same realities the rest of the American public does. Peoples feelings of AFL-CIO and their adherence to union values aside they do still have considerable influence among political circles but it fortunately it is diminishing. Look at how cozy Obama is with Trumka, how many times former SEIU president Andy Stern visited the Whitehouse. In many states and municipalities union officials have considerable influence and direct lines to law makers its outrageous. Look at somewhere like Boston and how ingrained the union and organized labor culture is with politics here, it's sickening. Our City Council President Mike Ross went after the firefighters and was able to get some (but not all) of the reforms through. Go to any government office and there are people shopping online, reading the newspaper, etc all day.

All in all I think RTW laws are good for workers and good for the American public. As more states adopt them others will feel the need to as well and I think eventually we will see a national RTW law to level the playing field and end injustices for all workers. It's both an exaggeration and fabrication to say RTW harms unions directly. All it does is hold unions accountable for their performance, if the membership doesn't like what is being negotiated or the leadership they don't have to be party to it. You of course believe there are sufficient remedies and protections against that today, but in practice its not easy for workers when they are subject to harassment and intimidation by union bosses and other union members for being dues objectors. And even then its not fair because the union dues objector payment is still imposed.

And in this instance I'll echo what WT said. Like it or not, companies are looking at ways to avoid unions and they lose flexibility and control over how to run their business as they see fit. This is the direction things are going in, unions can accept it and change or continue to lose members and get dragged out of existence. If RTW laws are so bad why is it that the IAM has so many members in RTW states? Why did they have an extended strike at Lockheed Martin (that ultimately proved unsuccessful)?

Josh

 

[delldude]

BS. Show me.

LOL........Look around and see how many Nam era are still there.

You gotta be kidding.

What they called? Boomers??

 

[RDU Jetblast]

I believe they are one and the same.

im not sure about that. one has to do with hiring abnd the other with firing

 

[Ms Tree]

I was under the impression they were the same thing just different terms. Under both you can quit with no notice, be fired for any reason.

 

[delldude]

BS. Show me.

You the one with the fancy graphic presentation showing public sector workforce job reductions and all......

You obviously stand behind your Brookings Institution.....

So why don't you show us where those jobs went instead of trying to turn it around on me.

Back up your assertion.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Indeed but sadly is a union is certified at an employer under the RLA in an otherwise RTW state like DL, GA, TX and others union membership is still imposed on those workers sadly. Looks like Connecticut is also considering RTW! Hopefully New Hampshire isn't far behind either.

Josh

You know..727823, I've 'suspected' for a while, that when You opine on here, that you Don't Know W T F you are talking about. But NOW I'm Positive !

NH/CT going to get your hallowed R T W BS ?
NOT as long as Democratic Governors Dan Malloy-CT/Maggie Hassan-NH are 'breathing' !
(But I would have 'Thought' YOU knew THAT. How stupid of ME) !

You further Opine that..."RTW is GOOD for business AND the Workers", well you were HALF right. RTW is VERY GOOD for Business..ONLY.

RTW is the reason the "WORKERS" make LESS than thier UNION counterparts, and while your VERY quick to point out that a Union contract protects a minicule amount of Bums, You conveniently LEAVE OUT the fact that Many an Innocent worker get 'Canned' because of personality conflicts with inept managers !!

I'm guessing you had a forgetful moment, when you forgot to mention part 'B' !!!!!!!!!!!!

Stick with your Forte..of all the thousands of FF miles you've accumulated riding around if FC on all the airlines world wide, and leave the Labor issues to those of us, who have worked and prospered under union contracts for many Decades !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[737823]

You know..727823, I've 'suspected' for a while, that when You opine on here, that you Don't Know W T F you are talking about. But NOW I'm Positive !

NH/CT going to get your hallowed R T W BS ?
NOT as long as Democratic Governors Dan Malloy-CT/Maggie Hassan-NH are 'breathing' !
(But I would have 'Thought' YOU knew THAT. How stupid of ME) !

You further Opine that..."RTW is GOOD for business AND the Workers", well you were HALF right. RTW is VERY GOOD for Business..ONLY.

RTW is the reason the "WORKERS" make LESS than thier UNION counterparts, and while your VERY quick to point out that a Union contract protects a minicule amount of Bums, You conveniently LEAVE OUT the fact that Many an Innocent worker get 'Canned' because of personality conflicts with inept managers !!

I'm guessing you had a forgetful moment, when you forgot to mention part 'B' !!!!!!!!!!!!

Stick with your Forte..of all the thousands of FF miles you've accumulated riding around if FC on all the airlines world wide, and leave the Labor issues to those of us, who have worked and prospered under union contracts for many Decades !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guess you didn't see that it nearly passed earlier this year. Anything is possible, 10 years (or even five years ago) if some one told me MI would be RTW I'd say no way but here we are right now. It could happen and like I said before as more states adopt these laws others will feel the need to as well.

But I agree it seems unlikely in CT but it could happen. Unfortunately the states that it would be most destructive to organized labor-CA, MA, NY, etc are unlikely to pursue this is in the foreseeable future.

Josh

 

[southwind]

Untouchable? To steal your phrase, that's "misleading," if not outright false. WI gov't workers agreed repeatedly to contribute their fair share, and do whatever it took to get things on track. Walker didn't care, because frankly, the alleged "budget crisis" was a manufactured one. His goal (or rather his handlers) was-and still is- to bust unions. Period.

And if the (at least for) now repealed Act 10 was to be such a boon for job creation, where are they already?

Just who determines what "Their Fair Share" is ?

So , there is no budget or fiscal crisis in the U.S. ? Of course there isn't. We can always raise taxes !

 

[Kev3188]

...how many times former SEIU president Andy Stern visited the Whitehouse.

I've said it before, but it bears repeating; IMO, Stern is not a friend of labor. You know how I talk about labor tearing the house down, and starting over? I usually have him in mind when I write it. His retirement from the SEIU was certainly not a loss.

Go to any government office and there are people shopping online, reading the newspaper, etc all day.

You could replace "government office" with just about any occupation imaginable. Sounds like HR either made a poor hiring decision, or doesn't enforce performance standards.

All in all I think RTW laws are good for workers and good for the American public.

That's not surprising; after all, your perspective is one that deals with explicitly building shareholder value, as opposed to stakeholder value.

As more states adopt them others will feel the need to as well and I think eventually we will see a national RTW law to level the playing field and end injustices for all workers. It's both an exaggeration and fabrication to say RTW harms unions directly.

Josh, with all due respect, that's enough hyperbole. Maybe it's just early, but I've seen you write things like "injustice" one too many times already. There's no injustice in being organized, and really; if it's so bad, a worker can either exercise their "choice" to not apply there in the first place, or exercise their "freedom" to look for another place of employment.

Framing the RTW argument with the idea workers in closed shops are a sort of helpless hostage is, frankly, demeaning to all of them.

And in this instance I'll echo what WT said. Like it or not, companies are looking at ways to avoid unions and they lose flexibility and control over how to run their business as they see fit.

... In which case, I'll echo my usual response to his stating the obvious: We also need oxygen to live.

 

[Kev3188]

Just who determines what "Their Fair Share" is ?

In this case, it was the state of WI.

So , there is no budget or fiscal crisis in the U.S. ? Of course there isn't. We can always raise taxes !

We're talking about individual states at this point, or more specifically, the manufactured crisis in WI, and how the governor leveraged that into an assault on worker-and 1st amendment- rights.

I know it's hard, but to stay on point. If nothing else, use a segue to try and tie your disparate points together...

 

[southwind]

Josh, with all due respect, that's enough hyperbole. Maybe it's just early, but I've seen you write things like "injustice" one too many times already. There's no injustice in being organized, and really; if it's so bad, a worker can either exercise their "choice" to not apply there in the first place, or exercise their "freedom" to look for another place of employment.

As is, the opposite is true. If your looking to join a union, don't go to work for a company that doesn't have union representation !

In this case, it was the state of WI.



We're talking about individual states at this point, or more specifically, the manufactured crisis in WI, and how the governor leveraged that into an assault on worker-and 1st amendment- rights.

I know it's hard, but to stay on point. If nothing else, use a segue to try and tie your disparate points together...

The state of Wisconsin is the "Employer" and "Should" determine what wages are !