Mid-atlantic Call Sign

Pura Vida

Actually, the term SJ was termed quite a long time ago, and not by anyone at US Aiways. The general consensus is that a 70 or more seat jet is not a regional jet. I'd even say that 50 seaters are not due to the range. Embraer is as, if not more interested in selling thier new line of Ejets to larger airlines than to "regionals". This is why they dropped the "ERJ" moniker, and enlarged the rear doors from the original design. In the U.S, they would love for thier line to be a replacement for DC9s, F100s, and smaller 737s. Apparently Embraer was disapointed at US's use of Express titles as the North American launch customer.

Pura Vida, if you read back through many of my posts you'll see that I also wish US and its unions had handled RJs and flow through differently. I believe the mainline and wholly owned employees need to use thier leverage (concessions) to regain the flying that has been outsourced and stop the divide and conquer tactics. The issue of contract flying, and in-between size jets will be a huge issue in the next few years, I predict even bigger than it was with the 50 seaters. I see it coming to a head at each major carrier, and being resolved in the next five years. I think it will be much to managements dismay, as they will have to find other ways to breach contracts and whipsaw than profit solely off of young, dumb airline employees who'll work for $1000 a month.

But if you are trying to blame individuals (never a smart idea), you are blaming the wrong ones. Many of the junior mainline pilots also worked thier way up through the commuters to a major airline, only to be furloughed. The same goes for many F/As, myself included. Most if not all of the MidAtlantic-eligible crews were not around to even vote on the conditions of the MAA division. They certainly would not have agreed to fly a similar sized jet for such a sub- industry standard contract had they had the opportunity.

You said "Welcome to our world"- ask yourself who built that world where a pilot makes less than a Gap salesperson? Senior mainline employees may have voted the MAA contracts in (under a threat of liquidation its worth noting), but the idea of "regional" wages at a "commuter" while "making your time" came from regional airline people allowing it over the years through thier eagerness to work. Like Mr. Ornstein of Mesa is proud of saying, his pilots must still be overpaid, because he's not having any trouble filling classes. As a result of this, both sides are suffering- there is not much worth putting ones time in for anymore, because airline management has figured out that some idiot will fly any type of aircraft or flying pretty much for free.

The positive result of the MidAtlantic/Embraer division is that we (US Airways employees), for now at least, are taking back our flying. Same goes for PSA. The situations are not ideal, in fact they are downright insulting (AL and PI employees left out in the cold, furloughed pilots making below commuter airline collegues, furlouged F/As having to wait six months for medical coverage like a new hire, while still considered mainline for all other purposes that suit the company). Hopefully we can change some of those things.

These people have given thier time, energy and money to this airline for up to 15 years, and this is what they are getting. They chose to come back and hope to rebuild our airline. I'm not sure of your situation, but you dont seem like you have a very clear view on things, or on our people.

I'm glad your comment over the radio that was meant to be an insult wasn't taken as one by anyone but, well, yourself. Perhaps you should spend more time worrying about your own flight deck than concerning yourself with ours. I can guarantee you, those guys in that EMB are not concerned about you or your uninformed opinion.
 
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  • #32
Light Years,

Try spewing that to the pilots of Piedmont and Allegheny both of whom YOUR group set adrift. I don't see AA or DL using the term SJ to describe the 70 seaters that Eagle, ComAir or ASA fly. And while we're at it, how about your JetsForJobs B.S. whereupon you would demand 50% of the seats of any new RJ...oops, I mean SJ...that were to come onto the property of any wholly-owned. That would result in the furlough of 50% of the pilots already on the property of the WO carrier just to make room for you. Instead of lecturing me, perhaps you should take a look in the mirror and seek counseling for what must surely be a face without dignity.
 
Actually, I look in the mirror, and I like what I see :wub: You would too if you were me!

However, one thing I dont see is any stripes. I'm not a pilot, never have been. Sorry! MY GROUP, the flight attendants, have generally been supportive of our AFA bothers and sisters at the W/Os, and if you'd bothered to read any of my posts you'd see that I in fact think there should be a single seniority list. Explain to me again how I'm responsible for Jets4Jobs? As a furloughed flight attendant, as of yet no one has "made room for me" anywhere, not even a W/O.

You clearly hate some people in your same profession that have been luckier (or just around longer) than you. And I'm not going to debate someone without facts- two posts ago you were astonished to hear that a US Airways plane on the US Airways certificate operated by US Airways personell uses the call sign "Usair". Then you proceeded to bash two MAA pilots who have NOTHING to do with your unhappiness. As I recall, there were many mainline pilots that supported a flow-through years ago, many of whom had come from a W/O. Those are the same junior ones now at MAA that you are jeering.

By the way, I have a friend who is an F.O. at Eagle who refers to the CRJ700 as an SJ. I also have a copy of Airliners magazine, a UK publication, from 2000 that uses the term. US Airways was not even consisering 70 seat operations at the time. Call it what you like...
 
PuraVida said:
Try spewing that to the pilots of Piedmont and Allegheny both of whom YOUR group set adrift. I don't see AA or DL using the term SJ to describe the 70 seaters that Eagle, ComAir or ASA fly. And while we're at it, how about your JetsForJobs B.S. whereupon you would demand 50% of the seats of any new RJ...oops, I mean SJ...that were to come onto the property of any wholly-owned. That would result in the furlough of 50% of the pilots already on the property of the WO carrier just to make room for you. Instead of lecturing me, perhaps you should take a look in the mirror and seek counseling for what must surely be a face without dignity.
Damn, were you abused as a child? :D
 
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So you are a F/A light years? And I was supposed to know that how? By searching your history on this board? Sorry, I don't have time for that. You do talk like a pilot though, I have to hand you that. Since you're an F/A, take some of your own advice that you guys give us all the time...You worry about the back and we'll worry about the front. As for certificates, it doesn't matter whose certificate the plane is under. If it's painted, "Express" on the side then it is just that.

Forthright...is that all you can come up with? You've obviously know nothing about the three WO carriers or walked a day in their shoes. So save it for Oprah.
 
foreright said:
Damn, were you abused as a child? :D
Well, YES! All the wholly-owned pilots were severely abused as red-headed step children for years.

Years ago, the official position of the mainline pilots, with their hard core scope clause, was that any jets on the property must be flown by mainline pilots. The WO pilots were not "jet qualified" in their words. This, while the other airlines were buying RJ's left and right to replace their turboprops, and taking our business. The financing and training were rumored to have already been arranged at at least one of the three WO's, but mainline ALPA would have no part of it, and refused scope relief. Even a flow through arrangement for the WO pilots was out of the question. They wouldn't even talk about it. It's alway been the old "I have mine, screw you!" attitude. Sounds like abuse to me!

BTW, this was well before the United merger issue ever came up, while the company could still afford new aircraft!

Now days, low time Mesa and other contract pilots are allowed to do our (mainline and WO) flying in RJ's at substandard pay and benefits.

Could there possible be a reason for the WO pilots to be a little bitter? Could this also possibly be one reason we are a dying airline today?

One hardfast rule in everything has always been "Adapt or die!"
 
PuraVida said:
So you are a F/A light years? And I was supposed to know that how? By searching your history on this board? Sorry, I don't have time for that. You do talk like a pilot though, I have to hand you that. Since you're an F/A, take some of your own advice that you guys give us all the time...You worry about the back and we'll worry about the front. Forthright...is that all you can come up with? You've obviously know nothing about the three WO carriers or walked a day in their shoes. So save it for Oprah.
From someone who has lived on BOTH sides of the street, pura vida....Wecome to the forum. Please, ;)
Think before speaking.
Do not insult the voice of reason. Light Years has defended the w/o's over and over. This is not the way to make new friends.
Find a healthy way to rid yourself of your bitterness. :rolleyes:
 
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Preach on...preach on. You have no one left who wants to hear your mainline rubbish. Someone calls you to the plate and all you can do is try out your amateur Dr. Phil skills. Take it on the road and get lost. That's been mainline ALPA's problem all along...ME ME ME! Screw everyone else! Frankly, it's like a vinyl LP that just keeps skipping in place.

Later days and better **** folks. "RJ's are just a fad" - Rakeesh Gangwal

Signing off,
Mr. Vida ;)

P.S. WOPropTrash, you made all accurate points. Thanks for the backup.
 
PuraVida said:
Forthright...is that all you can come up with? You've obviously know nothing about the three WO carriers or walked a day in their shoes. So save it for Oprah.
Actually.....its foreright. And yes i know more about the WO carriers than you, or more than i care to know. I was at PSA for over 5 years, mainline for 3, and now mid-a. So i do feel qualified to tell you to shut your hole. :up:
Screw Oprah, im takin this one stright to springer!
 
WOpropTrash said:
Well, YES! All the wholly-owned pilots were severely abused as red-headed step children for years.

Years ago, the official position of the mainline pilots, with their hard core scope clause, was that any jets on the property must be flown by mainline pilots. The WO pilots were not "jet qualified" in their words. This, while the other airlines were buying RJ's left and right to replace their turboprops, and taking our business. The financing and training were rumored to have already been arranged at at least one of the three WO's, but mainline ALPA would have no part of it, and refused scope relief. Even a flow through arrangement for the WO pilots was out of the question. They wouldn't even talk about it. It's alway been the old "I have mine, screw you!" attitude. Sounds like abuse to me!

BTW, this was well before the United merger issue ever came up, while the company could still afford new aircraft!

Now days, low time Mesa and other contract pilots are allowed to do our (mainline and WO) flying in RJ's at substandard pay and benefits.

Could there possible be a reason for the WO pilots to be a little bitter? Could this also possibly be one reason we are a dying airline today?

One hardfast rule in everything has always been "Adapt or die!"
Yes, that "hard cored scope clause" WAS in our contract. It had NOTHING to do with qualification and EVERYTHING to do with jobs...our jobs. We had SJs. I flew one in 1984. We had them right up to the point where management said that they didn't want them anymore, sold them, furloughed the pilots and transfered the flying to the WOs and affiliate carriers. Now, in some weird thinking, you find you've been damaged by the mainline??? How??? When we bought Henson, they had a few Shorts and Beech 99s. Soon their fleet was tripled with Dashs as was their seniority list while the mainline list shrunk as did our fleet numbers. Then along comes Comair with their CRJs and every regional guy figures he should be sitting in his very own RJ, SJ or whatever the heck you want to call it. Great, knock yourself out, BUT NOT at our expense. We have just as much right to our jobs as you. And with the massive transfer of flying from the mainline, maybe moreso.

So, for every one of you sweating out his job at a WO, two mainline pilots have paid a greater price...unemployment. We took what steps we could to protect them, as we should have. I'm getting pretty sick and tired of the fingerpointing. If anyone in this outfit has been disadvantaged, it has been those on the MAINLINE. Pilots, F/As, Mechanics...all of us. We all have a story.

A320 Driver B)

BTW...We wanted the flow-through but Gangwal wanted to know what we were willing to trade for it. It died right there. To management, it didn't matter what was right, only what they could get out of it.
 
PuraVida said:
....As for certificates, it doesn't matter whose certificate the plane is under. If it's painted, "Express" on the side then it is just that.
Actually, you are dead wrong. It matters 100 % whose certificate the plane is under. Would you like to speak with the FAA? I have on many occasions and they will definately tell you different. Furthermore,those employees are our mainline brothers/sisters.They are making sacrifices for everyone. Without MAA, mainline is GONE. These people are making peanuts to ensure you still have your job at mainline, or where ever you are. No mainline means no wholly owned and no contract carriers. Therefore, if MAA does not generate money for this company we are all collecting food stamps and unemployed.
 
With Puravida's lack of FAR knowledge (re:callsigns and operating certificates), I am surprised that he/she can pass a recurrent ride. With his/her constant ill will and hatred, I am surprised that this person can hold any job.
 

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