more IAM fleet service committeemen recommending a ''no'' vote

[ExUAW]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/5/2003 6:34:30 PM Tim Nelson wrote:

I have had the opportunity to converse with fleet service committeemen other than myself that have recommended a 'no' vote to the workers they represent. This vote will be very close.
I will not speak for them but below is what sums up my position on why I am recommending a 'no vote' for the workers I represent ....... Just because we work the ramp doesn't mean we are stupid.

Tim Nelson
Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago O'hare
you can call me at: 215-440-6392
------------

Well, Tim, it's a real gamble you're taking. How about if I bring my family over for meals if we lose?

[/blockquote]

 

[14all41]

Hey Bob
How about me bringing my family over to your home for meals if this assault on the Fleet Service workers goes through!!

 

[chipmunn]

Tim:

Would you answer Biffs question of "Can you guarantee that if fleet votes no that the company won't shut its doors?"

In a recent article, WorldSocialistWebsite.com said, "The (US Airways) unions don't have the same power that they used to; the past decade the tables have turned. The government, the banks-these are the people who have the money and are calling the shots."

I believe this is the sad truth and nobody likes the situation for US employees, but the truth is, either the IAM, CWA, and AFA agree to the cuts, or the financiers, creditors, and investors have said they will withdraw their financing and US Airways will likely be forced to liquidate, because labor refused to agree to the financial terms set by outsiders.

The money people and ATSB do not bluff. Either the cuts come or all pay, benefits, and severance will be gone, for 32,000 employees.

Regardless, Tim, could you answer Biff's question?

Chip

 

[delldude]

[BR][BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/6/2003 7:03:35 AM libertybell wrote: [BR][BR]Hey biff and 320 If you want a gaurantee from this airline[BR]you must not know its history they break gaurantees all the time. The issue is about trust I cannot trust this company anymore they have lied and misled its workers.[BR][BR][EM]the issue here is are you willing to keep your job at a lower premium with,hopefully success; in the future. [/EM][BR]I have some 20 yrs with this company I have bled for it but [BR]I will not die for it. The company has turned its focus to fire, layoff, force and do what ever it can to get rid of senior workers. To me there is no other option .[BR][EM]nobody's asking you to dive on a grenade here.[BR][/EM][BR]What part of NO dont you understand?[BR][EM]the part i don't understand is where you coerce your fellow members into to doing what YOU think is best....and having THEM pay with THEIR jobs for your dissatifaction.[/EM][/BLOCKQUOTE]

 

[libertybell]

On 1/6/2003 7:03:35 AM libertybell wrote:

Hey biff and 320 If you want a gaurantee from this airline
you must not know its history they break gaurantees all the time. The issue is about trust I cannot trust this company anymore they have lied and misled its workers.

Dell wrote-(the issue here is are you willing to keep your job at a lower premium with,hopefully success; in the future.)

I have some 20 yrs with this company I have bled for it but
I will not die for it. The company has turned its focus to fire, layoff, force and do what ever it can to get rid of senior workers. To me there is no other option .

Dell wrote-(nobody's asking you to dive on a grenade here.)

What part of NO dont you understand?

Dell wrote-(the part i don't understand is where you coerce your fellow members into to doing what YOU think is best....and having THEM pay with THEIR jobs for your dissatifaction.)

-----------------------------------------------------------

Dell you stated "that the issue should be if I'm willing to keep my job at a lower premium with hopefully sucess in the future." You have no idea the present working condtions the company is putting on the backs of fleet service. The lower premium you speak of will line the exec pockets with profits off the backs of workers who break there @#$ every day giving a premium product to the customer. The company wants work done with below mininum staffing with aircraft loads thru the roof. Workers are suffering with injurys thats are increasing day by day. Our bodies will never make it to 2008 with the way they are treating us!

Dell dive on a grenade? I wont waste my time on this statement you miss the whole issue

Dell wrote-(the part i don't understand is where you coerce your fellow members into to doing what YOU think is best....and having THEM pay with THEIR jobs for your dissatifaction.)

Coerce? No I'll leave that for the company they have been doing a fine job of that for sometime. The workers are making up their own minds and the word I keep hearing is No to the company this time!

 

[wings396]

As usual Chip is trying to save his $$$$$$$ job by telling everyone else to eat dirt. As far as this company has come with the cuts already in place as well as the reduced lease rates it would be foolish for them to throw in the towel over the IAM & CWA. Believe me if Chip were headed for the seat of an RJ for the rest of his career making 50K a year, he would be singing a different tune too. As it stands now he can end up in his nice new A320 with a 6 figure salary and a pension that can't be beat anywhere else.

 

[Hope777]

A YES vote will be the end to mainline FSA's with the exception of about 10-15 stations. As far as the Pilot pension question, I too Chip would like to hear your answer. It has been asked several times before, so Chip we are all waiting or should we expect to see your response to your peers in the Charlotte Observer?

 

[CS AGENT]

Chip Munn:

Will you please answer or respond to the question that has been asked of you many times.

What about the pilot pension?

Why should CWA or IAM-fleet give up our 20-40 year careers to fund YOUR Pension.

What you don't understand is that we do get the ultimatum. The company might close the doors, however WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH. I have been here 20 years and had my pension stolen from me in 1992. I have given and given, but no more.

If the company needs another cent from CWA, They can put every employeed in this company on the same pension footing...FROZEN or they can shut the doors forever.

Instead of asking Tim to answer Biffs question,
How about responding to the PENSION QUESTION.

 

[diogenes]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/6/2003 4:25:56 AM Biffeman wrote:

Tim Nelson
Can you gaurantee that if fleet votes no that the company won't shut its doors?
----------------
[/blockquote]
------------------------------------------------------------

No, he can't. Can you guarantee the company will stay open if we vote yes?

No, you can't.

Toss-up.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Although a 'yes' vote based on fear and emotions is unwise and out of focus, so is a 'no' vote based on anger.

I will be making an informed 'no' vote, and that 'no' vote will be representive of a person who likes his job and hopes to continue working for US AIRWAYS.

Although some have suggested that somehow Bronner will close shop over "ramp issues", it is simply not a plausible conclusion and at best marginal or extreme thinking based on emotion. For those who choose to believe that then so be it.

To the few posters (sorry but I forget who) who asked me if I can offer a guarantee to my position. I can't offer a 100% guarantee that you won't drown in your own bathtub. However, the persuasion is that it is ok to take a bath.
On the other hand, if it is guarantees that your ears/eyes may be desperately seeking then maybe the company will dish out some more guarantees and promises to you.
I'm sure the company will say once again that there are no plans for further reductions. And how about the old trick, "We will need everyone here". If they haven't said it, my guess is they will. There is nothing new under the sun with corporate intent.

To Chip Munn, if you are a pilot then I can certainly understand the position you are advocating.

Tim Nelson
Local Chairman IAM 1487 O'hare
215-440-6392

 

[chipmunn]

In regard to the pilot pension, the pilots are taking the cuts and negotiating pension changes to support the retirement plan.

Each pilot has taken on average over a $120,000 per year cut so far in pay and benefits, with more cuts likely to save the retirement plan.

The pilot group represents about 10 percent of the employees, who have 30 percent of the labor expense, and took 60 percent of the total cut.

The remaining 90 percent of employees, who have 70 percent of the labor expense, took only 40 percent of the cuts.

I find it interesting that 10 percent of the employee group is shouldering an enormous financial burden, yet the other employee groups believe it is not enough.

The pension funding issue is largely due to ERISA and market conditions, which both could see a change in the future.

Meanwhile, the pilot group took enormous cuts to keep this company alive. It will be interesting to see if the other labor groups become part of the team and sacrifice as well.

However, there is now reason to believe if those unions who have yet to ratify costs fail to ratify their TA's, there could be much more deeper cuts in store for those labor groups, if the airline is not forced to liquidate by the the "money people" first.

Chip

 

[taylor01]

seems to me chip the 10% make the most money![BR][BR]<PORTION DELETED BY MODERATOR>

 

[Lake Central]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/6/2003 3:59:40 PM chipmunn wrote:

In regard to the pilot pension, the pilots are taking the cuts and negotiating pension changes to support the retirement plan.

Each pilot has taken on average over a $120,000 per year cut so far in pay and benefits, with more cuts likely to save the retirement plan.

The pilot group represents about 10 percent of the employees, who have 30 percent of the labor expense, and took 60 percent of the total cut.

The remaining 90 percent of employees, who have 70 percent of the labor expense, took only 40 percent of the cuts.

I find it interesting that 10 percent of the employee group is shouldering an enormous financial burden, yet the other employee groups believe it is not enough.

The pension funding issue is largely due to ERISA and market conditions, which both could see a change in the future.

Meanwhile, the pilot group took enormous cuts to keep this company alive. It will be interesting to see if the other labor groups become part of the team and sacrifice as well.

However, there is now reason to believe if those unions who have yet to ratify costs fail to ratify their TA's, there could be much more deeper cuts in store for those labor groups, if the airline is not forced to liquidate by the the "money people" first.

Chip
----------------
[/blockquote]

Chip, are you saying that U can ask the Judge to throw the contracts out, if any of the TA's are not approved?

 

[sdavis29]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/6/2003 3:59:40 PM chipmunn wrote:
[P]In regard to the pilot pension, the pilots are taking the cuts and negotiating pension changes to support the retirement plan.[BR][BR]Each pilot has taken on average over a $120,000 per year cut so far in pay and benefits, with more cuts likely to save the retirement plan.[BR][BR]The pilot group represents about 10 percent of the employees, who have 30 percent of the labor expense, and took 60 percent of the total cut.[BR][BR]The remaining 90 percent of employees, who have 70 percent of the labor expense, took only 40 percent of the cuts.[BR][BR]I find it interesting that 10 percent of the employee group is shouldering an enormous financial burden, yet the other employee groups believe it is not enough.[BR][BR]The pension funding issue is largely due to ERISA and market conditions, which both could see a change in the future. [BR][BR]Meanwhile, the pilot group took enormous cuts to keep this company alive. It will be interesting to see if the other labor groups become part of the team and sacrifice as well.[BR][BR]However, there is now reason to believe if those unions who have yet to ratify costs fail to ratify their TA's, there could be much more deeper cuts in store for those labor groups, if the airline is not forced to liquidate by the the "money people" first.[BR][BR]Chip[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]chip,[BR]no doubt the pilots have also given blood....but regarding the last part of your statement..[BR]there is also reason to believe that there will be much deeper cuts if the unions do ratify.[BR]remember, you have guarentees...two other groups do not...[BR]many of you are worried that you will not have a job if it does not pass....quite a few are worried they wont have a job if it does pass....(at least not the same job). [BR]for just 1 minute put yourself on the other side and try to weigh it out...alpa was not given a vote[BR] but if they had, how do you think pilots who would be out would vote...do you think they would all jump on the wagon and let the ride continue...we will never know[BR]this will probably be construde as being negative,,however it is just a different point of view.[BR] as stated on many other post..each must decide what is right for themselves and no one else.[BR][BR][BR][BR][BR][/P]

 

[OldGuyinPA]

No anger, just disappointment. The cancer at the Crystal Palace still lingers. I voted no. I just wish I could have had more votes....NO