New Invest

[AgtN3]

Welcome All
Sure am gonna miss the smiling mug of Siegel
when signing on. NOT
Well maybe after bk and new stock is issued
Dave will just give it away to employees
If he doesn''t at least honor our stock in retirement how U gonna trust them a second time
Fooled me twice shame on me[:halo:]

 

[Cohiba]

What are you talking about "new stock"? Where do you get your info?

 

[insp89]

Could'nt agree with you guys more! We are seeing Dave's true color. 6 million, for what ??

 

[simfixer]

AgtN3,
I was a sucker for Dave too. I won't fall for any more bs. He wants millions to "retain" the people that brought us to bankruptcy. Doesn't he know most of those people are so afraid of loosing their jobs that they have not made a proactive decision in years? They have all been hiding out trying not to rock the boat, as it sinks. They let the structure of the company rot and corode or worse, they were the catalyst for it. Management may run the airline but we make the airline run. And we have been making it run very well. Kudos to customer service and fleet service for keeping us on top of the DOT even during these trying times. Even while Dave is trying to wring the last nickle he can out of you, and trashing 401ks, you still toe the line every day. I have way more respect for all of you than I ever will have for backstabbing Dave.

 

[AgtN3]

Hey Sim and Ins Funny how all the dot stats measure fleet and cust svc
We know how to run an airline Ck the stats lol
And mr coh I get my Info from Dave thats were

 

[MarkMyWords]

I think Dave did a good job of addressing this in his road show meetings but let me put a different spin on it. Let me ask you this. If your union were promised a lump sum bonus in 2001, would you be screaming for that money? (Note - I am not talking about future bonuses, we are talking about money for last year) These are not executive level bonuses, these are for middle to upper management. I think Dave also had the right idea when it comes to dispensing the bonuses over a 12 month period of time. This helps to ensure that these same people don't just take the money and run.

 

[simfixer]

Those people aren't going to run anywhere, they would have to dig themselves out of the holes they have been hiding in first.

 

[insp89]

MarkMyWords, What you are describing is exactly why I have a problem with the 6 million dollar "bonuses". The employees of this airline are being asked to take DEEP concessions. There were a lot of promises made for the year 2001, Why should a few profit while others take a BIG hit! There is simply no justification for these bonuses.

 

[insp89]

Well, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree, If these people want to go on to greener pastures, then so be it. If they do not have any more loyality and stick it out like the rest of us, SEE YA. This is nothing but rubbing salt into the wounds of every other concession-taking employee ,[not to mention those on layoff !]

 

[ClueByFour]

Folks, I hate to rub salt into this, but here is the difference:

Even in today's market, there is still some demand for somebody with, say, a CPA as a cost accountant. Or, with an MBA and strategic planning skills. These folks are among the few and the proud who can easily find other employment, in many cases paying more money and _not_ at a company in Chapter 11. And, in US' case, once these people leave, it'll be very difficult to replace them--since people with these skillsets can easily find work and would not necessarily want to stake their future on a carrier in Chapter 11. $6 million across a couple of dozen (possibly a few hundred) people is not that much money.

Can you honestly tell me that as a ramper in PIT you are going to run right out and get another ramp job in PIT with somebody else? Or that there is any threat of a 12-year pilot jumping ship to go work at another major? See the difference?

It's the delta in replacement cost, and the cold hard fact is that the people who are up for these bonuses have a replacement cost (in terms of hard cash and intangibles) that is levels of magnitude higher than any of the organized labor groups.

 

[MarkMyWords]

I realize that it doesn't seem to make sense to offer bonuses while in concession talks but there are a few things to take into consideration. First, these managers are not the people that are responsible for the problems we find our selves in, that responsibility lies with the old executive team. If the IAM was promised a $1,000. incentive raise in 2001 and wasn't paid it, what would happen? Would there be cries of fowl? Would there be a work slow down? Would there be a high level of distrust between the IAM and Dave? Yes. In Dave's road show he stated that we were losing management employees at 3 times the normal levels. Why? Because companies are soliciting the good management of the company away with offers of more money and incentives. We need to retain these people. Especially the good ones. I believe the company made a promise to these people to pay them their incentive bonuses and they should get them. I am glad to see that Dave has elected to spread the payments out over a 12 month period, to help stop the outflow of talent in the company.

How would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot?

 

[MarkMyWords]

Insp89 -

Can iI ask if you went to any of Dave's road shows yet? He was very good about overing this point very thoroughly. My concessions have already started and I don't begrudge these people one penny. Think about ALP and CWA. Both of them received parity increases in May and June. The company told them that they would honor all parity raises until their contracts were renegotiated. The ALPA parity increase was nearly 17%. I don't hear you screaming about that. They were entitled to it, they earned it, they got it. Same holds true for the management that are to get the 6 million. They worked hard for it, they earned it, they are entitled to it. Please don't look at this as an executive bonus. Dave or any of the VP's are not getting this money. This is going to the middle management employees who have been busting their humps to earn this money. They earned it in 2001 and haven't received it yet.

Again, How would you feel if you were promised something if you performed to certain expectations, you achieved your goals and got nothing? What if the IAM was due a parity raise in July and the company said no, we are in concessionary discussions so we aren't going to pay you that raise? There would be hell to pay. Let's let Dave use this money to retain the good managers and weed out the bad ones.

 

[gogogadget]

----------------
On 8/21/2002 1:06:48 PM

Cluebyfour, That all sounds well and good. I believe that NO ONE can not be replaced. Besides, look at the timing of this situation, We have 2 unions that have not agreed to the companies restructuring plan, These people [and rightfully so] are saying, Why should I agree to concessions while 6 millions dollars are going to be put into other employees pockets ? This just may have a big affect on the votes by the IAM & CWA.
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The bad thing is that thes people are replacable. If you are going through a changing of the guard, it is sometimes wise to bring in new talent, ie Siegle, If you are going to pay someone pay guys like this, not the labor troops of management. It is also bad to rub a bonus in the face of
anyone, especially from those that are trying to take it away from you in the first place! I dont know what 6mil would be in the big scheme of things when it comes to the CWA but at a minimus I think that should be considered when asking for concessions.

 

[insp89]

Cluebyfour, That all sounds well and good. I believe that NO ONE can not be replaced. Besides, look at the timing of this situation, We have 2 unions that have not agreed to the companies restructuring plan, These people [and rightfully so] are saying, Why should I agree to concessions while 6 millions dollars are going to be put into other employees pockets ? This just may have a big affect on the votes by the IAM & CWA.

 

[simfixer]

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Let's let Dave use this money to retain the good managers and weed out the bad ones.
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How is he going to use this money to weed out the bad ones? That just doesn't makes sense. You must be one of our strategic planners. The only way some of these people would be useful to us is if they went to work for our competitors. However, admittedly there are some managers who do work very hard and deserve a bonus, but these are also the type of people that see themselves as part of a team and would be willing to sacrifice to help us through this difficult period. As for it being hard to recruit mangement level people, I'm afraid you don't have a realistic view of the employment market right now.