Next new Destination ?

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Sure there is -- A-model 777's, which don't have nearly the same range as the -ER and -LR versions. UAL bought a bunch of them as a 747-100/DC-10 replacement, and flies them in a high density two class configuration.

A few of these are already on the used market, and although they have different engines, they'd still share a common cockpit with the remaining 777 fleet and a hypothetical 787 fleet.

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E,

I'd LOVE to see 777's to sju and sdq. They could do well hauling tons of A/F.

But what troubles me about your theory, is I could see UA flying a 777, 6 hours LA/SFO to HNL, but really could'nt see a plane that size, only flying 21/2 hours from MIA to Sju/SDQ.

Gotta' figure a 777 captain, is making a LOT more money than a A-300 skipper !

NH/BB's

 

[AAStew]

An Airbus Captain at 77 hours makes 13,500,a 777 Captain makes 15,500.
Not that big of a differance.

 

[eolesen]

An Airbus Captain at 77 hours makes 13,500,a 777 Captain makes 15,500.
Not that big of a differance.

I believe the 777 also has a higher cruising speed, which means fewer block hours overall. Couple in the lower maintenance costs for the 10-15 year old airframe vs. the 25 year old airframe, and it probably becomes a wash.

Another benefit would be that we'd be able to operate the aircraft beyond the east coast, something AA doesn't do today, presumably because of maintenance.

 

[FWAAA]

I posted it a while back - if freight is really the driver to/from the Caribbean that everyone claims it is, then 777s will probably fly routes now dominated by A300s when those A300s are retired. 763s lack the freight capacity. If fleet simplicity is really as important as AA claims, then AA will use its 3 class 777s. If it makes more sense to reconfigure the cabins for high density, then AA will reconfigure two or three dozen of them to 2 class.

Sure, 777s are big, but then again, so are A300s. Big doesn't necessarily mean inappropriate for short flights.

Maybe the current $25/hr pay differential between A300 and 777 Captains makes a real difference, but I doubt it. After all, the 777 has much higher freight capacity and much higher pax capacity, and it wouldn't take that much more freight or pax to cover that $25/hr.

Right now, a daily 777 flies DFW-ORD-DFW and there's also that weekly 777 BOS-SDQ. This winter, AA is flying two daily A300s MIA-MCO. That's a really short flight.

 

[eolesen]

The 777 may have a higher payload capacity in terms of actual weight, I believe they've both got 22 LD3 positions.

The DFW-ORD-DFW flights (66, 67) exist pretty much to reposition a spare aircraft. It sits in DFW during the morning to protect the NRT/KIX trips, and then moves to ORD to protect LHR and the other Europe trips. During 2005, the spare was used about 11% of the time, and 66/67 operated with a MD80 on one or both legs.

 

[FWAAA]

The 777 may have a higher payload capacity in terms of actual weight, I believe they've both got 22 LD3 positions.

I may be mistaken, but the way I read Boeing's website, it says that the 777 can handle 32 LD3 containers, 18 forward and 14 aft:

http://www.boeing.com/assocproducts/aircom...ps/7772sec2.pdf

Which makes sense, since the 777 has been touted as having nearly same lower-hold capacity (volume) as the 747.

The DFW-ORD-DFW flights (66, 67) exist pretty much to reposition a spare aircraft. It sits in DFW during the morning to protect the NRT/KIX trips, and then moves to ORD to protect LHR and the other Europe trips. During 2005, the spare was used about 11% of the time, and 66/67 operated with a MD80 on one or both legs.

Thanks for the informative post. Would that be about the same reason for the now-discontinued daily 777 between DFW and LAX and for the current DFW-MIA 777?

 

[eolesen]

I may be mistaken, but the way I read Boeing's website, it says that the 777 can handle 32 LD3 containers, 18 forward and 14 aft

Good catch. It's 32 for the 777, and 22 for the A300, which means that the 777 could carry more than the bus currently does.

Would that be about the same reason for the now-discontinued daily 777 between DFW and LAX and for the current DFW-MIA 777?

Sort of for LAX -- it appears to have protected the LAX-NRT departure.

The MIA-DFW segments are more to get aircraft routed in and out DFW for A and B checks.

 

[JFK777]

The main issue with the bus vs the 763 is the cargo capacity and the width in the belly. The bus is wider, if AA did order 787. then two sub-types could be ordered. The shorter range version for the Caribean and the longer range for the 763 replacements and new ultra long range routes. The 787 is 8 across in coach, the same as the bus, & I think a few inches wider then the bus so AA could replace 2 types with one great new airplane. The 787 will be a large part of AA's future with 100 in the fleet if all goes the way we anticipate it will.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

I had originally predicted a "3 model fleet".

But after some additional research, I now think it will be 4, because of the relative "youth" of the last few "batches" of the 757's

(737..757..777..787)


NH/BB's

 

[MCI transplant]

I had originally predicted a "3 model fleet".

But after some additional research, I now think it will be 4, because of the relative "youth" of the last few "batches" of the 757's

(737..757..777..787)
NH/BB's

<_< What! No 767s???

 

[Skymess]

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E,

I'd LOVE to see 777's to sju and sdq. They could do well hauling tons of A/F.

But what troubles me about your theory, is I could see UA flying a 777, 6 hours LA/SFO to HNL, but really could'nt see a plane that size, only flying 21/2 hours from MIA to Sju/SDQ.

Gotta' figure a 777 captain, is making a LOT more money than a A-300 skipper !

NH/BB's

We were flying a 777 from BOS to SDQ on saturdays last year. Rumor was it was getting trashed and other rumors said they simply needed the planes somewhere else. I can buy either rumor because the 300 armrests and traytables get ripped off on those flights frequently. People stand their 5 year old lap children on the tables, change their diapers on them, and stand on the armrests to maneuver the monster carry on bags in and out of the vaults we call overhead bins.

Regarding new routes: I say we just start randomly announcing new routes we are going to fly and not do them. Oh wait, we're already doing that. 🙄

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

<_< What! No 767s???

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Good point MCI !

(The last batch of 767-300's are relatively "youthful, as well.)

Perhaps a "trade-in"(with Boeing) of all the 57's/67's, for the 787 ???

NH/BB's

 

[eolesen]

Looking at the simultaneous 777 and 737 deliveries as a benchmark, AA really can't afford to be taking more than 4 aircraft a month from both a financial and a crew training perspective.

Assuming that many deliveries per month, a wholesale replacement of the 757 and 767 fleets would take at least four and more likely seven years to complete, making all but two or three of the 763 fleet at least ten years old.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Looking at the simultaneous 777 and 737 deliveries as a benchmark, AA really can't afford to be taking more than 4 aircraft a month from both a financial and a crew training perspective.

Assuming that many deliveries per month, a wholesale replacement of the 757 and 767 fleets would take at least four and more likely seven years to complete, making all but two or three of the 763 fleet at least ten years old.

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Point well taken...E.

But when the 787 comes on line, what to do ?

Considering that (hypothetically), AA could wind up still flying..737..757..767..777..787, what do they go with?

This is taking into account that the A-300, and S-80, by this time, are HISTORY.

If at all possible, If AA could go to a 3 a/c fleet, the 737..777..+..787 would fill EVERY need possible

The ONLY thing I'd add, is to pick up a half dozen 777-200LR Worldliners, which would be able(if the need arise) to fly ORD/DFW to SYD.

NH/BB's

ps,

I wonder which manufacturer will be the first with an a/c that can go JFK-SYD ??

One thing for sure, when that time comes, without question it will be Quantas with the FIRST order !!!!!

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< The term:"A Bird in the hand, is worth two in the bush!" comes to mind when talking about replacing the MD-80 fleet with 737s! Oh! It will happen! But is it economically prudant, at this time, or in the near future??? :unsure: