No carryons allowed on flights from/connecting in UK

[FA Mikey]

funny, but you didnt explain what I dont understand.

 

[eolesen]

Why bother explaining what you can't understand?

 

[FA Mikey]

Well sorry you are so superior to me. But if you cant even bother to explain it, must be quite a weak argument.

 

[upsilon]

Why bother explaining what you can't understand?

FM, in view of FA Mikey's response, I think you would have been better served by not using the word "can't" and instead using the words "refuse to " or "are unwilling to accept".

E..., I also note that this thread has brought to this USAv AA board one of the more divisive former posters on both the PB and the FT boards.

I would also note that some of the most pro-union, anti-Bush and thus politically "liberal" posters are among the most pro-profiling, anti-ACLU, Judeo-Christian espousing posters on this topic.

I suspect Messrs Bush and Rove may be correct in placing their bets on the "War on Terror" as a political winner!

 

[Wretched Wrench]

I would also note that some of the most pro-union, anti-Bush and thus politically "liberal" posters are among the most pro-profiling, anti-ACLU, Judeo-Christian espousing posters on this topic.

Faulty Logic Alert!

Being anti-Bush does not make one liberal.

Faulty Information Alert!

Being pro union does not make one liberal. Research this a little, and you will see that Bush was elected by blue- collar unionists by a large margin.

Faulty Generalization Alert!

I have been a life-long Republican and consider myself a Goldwater conservative, voted for Bush the first time, but am now anti-Bush. I am also a lifelong supporter of the ACLU.

Maybe another poster fits your "profile". People are generally a little more complex than your generalization would indicate you think they are.

 

[FA Mikey]

FM, in view of FA Mikey's response, I think you would have been better served by not using the word "can't" and instead using the words "refuse to " or "are unwilling to accept".

E..., I also note that this thread has brought to this USAv AA board one of the more divisive former posters on both the PB and the FT boards.

I would also note that some of the most pro-union, anti-Bush and thus politically "liberal" posters are among the most pro-profiling, anti-ACLU, Judeo-Christian espousing posters on this topic.

I suspect Messrs Bush and Rove may be correct in placing their bets on the "War on Terror" as a political winner!

Yet somehow and true to the typical conservative repertoire, talk is cheap. You take some cheap stereotypes, and some fear mongering, add as much unrelated garble and then claim anyone with a response cannot understand.

No one has offered a plan or even remotely explained how you spot check Muslims.

Instead of securing the borders, (we have one up north too) securing important infrastructure (not just closing off political buildings to the general public) Checking all the cargo in our ports (like Hong Kong the largest busiest port in the world does. Checking all the cargo we put on planes over our skies and filled with our families and friends. We should check Muslims for explosives. That is as half backed and the lies that got us in to Iraq.

 

[Mach85ER]

"We should check Muslims for explosives. That is as half backed and the lies that got us in to Iraq."



Sounds like a better plan than the one in force now, the one where you put the 8 year old blond kid on the no-fly/selectee list, even though his Dad is flying the plane. :blink:

Works for me, I can keep him in line by with a threat to send him to Gitmo. 😛


cheers

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Sounds like a better plan than the one in force now, the one where you put the 8 year old blond kid on the no-fly/selectee list, even though his Dad is flying the plane. :blink:

My favorite is when Terror list snag nearly grounded Ted Kennedy.

Or when Joe, Foss, retired General, WWII Air Ace and Medal fo Honor Hero, former Governor of SD, Former AFL Comissioner, my dad's sometime hunting buddy, and one of my childhood heroes, had his medal taken from him by the TSA

 

[Wretched Wrench]

With regard to profiling,

"TSA screeners being trained to monitor people, not just bags
As El Al Israel has done for years, U.S. airport security will be looking for suspicious behavior."

http://www.latimes.com/travel/la-tr-inside...,1053115.column

I would have some doubt if the TSA screeners I go through daily are trainable, but the idea sounds good.

 

[TWAnr]

Or when Joe, Foss, retired General, WWII Air Ace and Medal fo Honor Hero, former Governor of SD, Former AFL Comissioner, my dad's sometime hunting buddy, and one of my childhood heroes, had his medal taken from him by the TSA

That happened over four and a half years ago, on January 11, 2002, well before the TSA came into being:

PHOENIX, Arizona (CNN) — Retired Gen. Joe Foss, 86, one of the most highly decorated U.S. war veterans, recently was detained at a security checkpoint at the Phoenix, Arizona, airport because he was carrying an item with sharp edges.

The sharp object turned out to be the Congressional Medal of Honor...

CNN - Decorated WWII veteran detained, searched at airport

...and he carried with him his Medal of Honor, as well as a Medal of Honor commemorative nail file and a dummy bullet which had been made into a key fob.

Each of these items was regarded as a potential security risk by airport personnel: the bullet for being a bullet, the nail file for being a nail file (metal nail files are now banned on flights in the USA), and the Medal of Honor for being a suspicious five-pointed metal object that might have been a weapon (similar to the Japanese throwing discs known hira shuriken).

We shouldn't fault airport security officers for not recognizing a Medal of Honor on sight; not many people get to see one in their lives. But a closer examination by security personnel would have shown them what it was, and at that point in the proceedings they fell down on the job. Rather than treating an obviously cooperative passenger courteously and allowing him to explain what the suspect item was, they shuffled the general back and forth and required him to remove his boots, belt, hat, and tie — several times each. The delay they subjected him to almost caused him to miss his flight. That is no way to treat any 86-year-old man, let alone a war hero and former governor.

Had the situation been handled professionally, the general would have cleared the security checkpoint in all of five minutes, with most of that taken up by the manual search his pacemaker necessitated. Yes, his nail file and key-ring charm would have been taken from him because both these items are on the list of things one must not bring onto a plane. But the Medal of Honor should have been quickly vetted and returned to its owner, and its owner should have been treated respectfully throughout.

Snopes.com - The Medal of Honor carried by a World War II hero aroused suspicion among airport security forces

Brigadier General Joe Foss passed away on January 1, 2003.

 

[Vortilon]

With regard to profiling,

"TSA screeners being trained to monitor people, not just bags
As El Al Israel has done for years, U.S. airport security will be looking for suspicious behavior."

http://www.latimes.com/travel/la-tr-inside...,1053115.column

I would have some doubt if the TSA screeners I go through daily are trainable, but the idea sounds good.

The TSA is a joke, and we all know it. There are obviously no hiring standards other than affirmitive action going on there. The terrorists gotta love that, to be sure... 😉

 

[Wretched Wrench]

TWAnr, thanks for the additional information and the link. I apologize to the TSA for blaming them for something done by "Airport Security".

Interestingly enough, I used to carry one of those bullet keychains, too. A war trophy. Anybody who knows anything about bullets could see that, as stated in the article, it was totally harmless. Nevertheless, I guessed that the security people probably would not know that, so I no longer carry it. I can understand the security people not understanding a deactivated round, but equating the Medal of Honor with a Ninja star is a bit of a stretch. I don't know which is more disquieting, that they considered the medal to be dangerous or that their spinmeisters came up with that cockamamie equivication.

Heck, before 9/11 I even carried only a very small pocket knife because I knew that almost NOBODY knew the law on blade length. Not even the cops standing around security.

 

[TWAnr]

TWAnr, thanks for the additional information and the link. I apologize to the TSA for blaming them for something done by "Airport Security".

Don't get me wrong. I am not a fan of the TSA system of security. They always seem to miss the forest for the trees.

That being said, in those days airport security was the responsibility of the airlines. Most security employees were poorly trained and earned minimum wage. The screeners in question were America West employees. I did not think it was possible, but at many airports the quality of the screeners has actually gone down since the change.

 

[eolesen]

I seriously doubt the screeners in question were HP employees. They were most likely contract screeners (i.e. Wackenhut, Globe, Huntleigh).

 

[Wretched Wrench]

The screeners in question were America West employees.

More likely low-bid contract employees, as FM mentioned.

I did not think it was possible, but at many airports the quality of the screeners has actually gone down since the change.

I have seen the full range, with most being low ability. I am always surprised to see competent ones, though. Usually at smaller cities.

I have even run across some who barely speak or understand English. In the larger cities, their hiring and particularly promotion seems to be guided more by affirmative action than anything else.

And, oh yeah, they flood our break rooms. 🙁 I have never taken the time to do an accurate count, but it seems that there are more in our break rooms than manning the long lines at security checkpoints.