no more jumpseats for SWA

[ramper_in_las]

Where was all your brother talk when our contracts were getting thrown out, our pensions terminated, and you were taking market share....

the worm is turning - today you saw the first press regarding how your airline initiated its biggest fare increase ever to support expiring fuel hedges and increasing employee costs,

You won't mind if everyone starts to point out that everyone who will listen that you are losing your only advantage...low cost.

Hey, it's only business....
JBG

biggest fare increase???? $2 to $4 in most markets. Up to $10 in others. Not bad in my book.

 

[jbguppy]

Help educate me then JBG...not too long ago there was a series of posts describing how a ticket on Southwest cost more than a ticket on United. Judging by your superior attitude, I am assuming you are a United pilot. So if UAL were pricing BELOW Southwest, were they not pricing as if they had hedges in place? Why are UAL jets flying with an 80+% load factor, but not bringing in a profit....are they selling MORE seats for LESS money than Southwest to maintain that all important "market share"? Funny how SWA will sell 20 seats out of 132 at a loss, but UAL seems content to sell 120 seats out of 132 at a loss to maintain market share. So no, I guess you aren't really pricing as if hedges were in place...you're pricing as if fuel was free.

So another airline must price above whatever SWA does or they are not managing revenue well or playing fair. It is laughable to hear you whine about other carriers pricing policies. Where were your cries for pricing fairness while you were undercutting everyone to take jobs and market share.

Is it really any surprise that you will be the competitive target of many other airlines. You reap what you sow, with your previous take no prisoners competition during the aftermath of 9/11, just don't expect anyone to cut your airline a break now that things are changing. Your attitude is hilarious, the whining is deafening. Nooo!! Nooo!! No one can be a successful airline except mine, SWA has a god given right to be profitable and no one else does!!! WAAAAAAAAA!!

Get a life, your competitive dose of reality is on it's way.

JBG

 

[jbguppy]

biggest fare increase???? $2 to $4 in most markets. Up to $10 in others. Not bad in my book.

Just saw a story on a network that covers the market on your price increase, the anchor's comment regarding these moves was about how the airlines are "nickel and diming" customers. The comment was also made about how paying for extra leg room was "OK"....

You have nothing to offer there with your cattle car seating. That has been the common criticism of your business model, that you have no real levers to pull to increase your revenue to support an ever increasing cost structure. That is why you went into higher revenue markets for higher fares. The fact is fuel hedges made you look like a much better airline than you are.

You better hope that you can maintain profitability before others stop matching. If other airlines start beating you up about being higher cost and cramped seating, 2 stops on the way with no first class or business...your bookings will definitely suffer.

Good Luck,

JBG

 

[KCFlyer]

So another airline must price above whatever SWA does or they are not managing revenue well or playing fair.

No..never said anybody needed to price above Southwest...but it appears to me that when you consistantly price below Southwest, when your fuel costs are well above Southwest's cost's (and several posts in other threads pointed out with pride that y'all price below Southwest), it doesn't seem particularly smart.

Where were your cries for pricing fairness while you were undercutting everyone to take jobs and market share.

I don't think Southwest ever chased market share. Your airline might...maybe that's the reason they visit bankruptcy court. Southwest chases profits, and could care less if they lead in market share. If their share of the market doesn't provide a profit, they'll leave. Would you have preferred that SWA lay off thousands, raise fares dramatically and "feel the pain" of the other airlines?

You reap what you sow, with your previous take no prisoners competition during the aftermath of 9/11, just don't expect anyone to cut your airline a break now that things are changing.

Oh mighty UAL pilot..oh all knowing one (does UAL require pilots to be psychics)I don't work for Southwest, or any airline for that matter. You know, Southwest (and United and American and Delta for that matter) all depend on customers. People weren't flying after 9/11. But money talks and Southwest recognized that a low enough fare in the following months would get people past that fear and on to airplanes. If that's "take no prisoners" competition, so be it. Something to think about...your planes are 80% full these days....if Southwest hadn't started something to get travellers back in the air, you might not have made it out of bankruptcy - or at least you wouldn't be enjoying the "market share" that your management still seems to value more than profits these days since most of your fleet would be parked and most of your current employees would be former employees.

Are you upset because Southwest didn't lay off any employees after 9/11? Are you mad because employee groups were the LAST cost cutting measure looked at over at SWA?

 

[corl737]

Don't worry about it ok corl737. I'll save you the trouble and buy my own $29 ticket to LAS...

Whaledriver --

I wasn't implying that you or anyone else is "on my list" because no ALPA pilots are. I was trying to point out to those who are nonpilots that as the Captain of the aircraft you - or I - have the authority to grant or deny the use of that seat as you deem appropriate. It's part of the perks of the position. If the CASS system says you're ok, you're welcome on my jumpseat or even in the first class section of our 737s -- you know, the first class you come to!

Save that $29 and come on board. But if you hit the jackpot on any of the 116 extra pulls of the quarter slots you have to promise to share!

 

[Busdrvr]

Class response Corl. In all honesty, I wouldn't advocate denying Mr. Hefner (even though I've suggested it before... 😀 ), but I would spend a little time having a short Q & A. Do I personally think he said it "off the record"? Yes, I do.

 

[jbguppy]

No..never said anybody needed to price above Southwest...but it appears to me that when you consistantly price below Southwest, when your fuel costs are well above Southwest's cost's (and several posts in other threads pointed out with pride that y'all price below Southwest), it doesn't seem particularly smart. I don't think Southwest ever chased market share. Your airline might...maybe that's the reason they visit bankruptcy court. Southwest chases profits, and could care less if they lead in market share. If their share of the market doesn't provide a profit, they'll leave. Would you have preferred that SWA lay off thousands, raise fares dramatically and "feel the pain" of the other airlines?

Oh mighty UAL pilot..oh all knowing one (does UAL require pilots to be psychics)I don't work for Southwest, or any airline for that matter. You know, Southwest (and United and American and Delta for that matter) all depend on customers. People weren't flying after 9/11. But money talks and Southwest recognized that a low enough fare in the following months would get people past that fear and on to airplanes. If that's "take no prisoners" competition, so be it. Something to think about...your planes are 80% full these days....if Southwest hadn't started something to get travellers back in the air, you might not have made it out of bankruptcy - or at least you wouldn't be enjoying the "market share" that your management still seems to value more than profits these days since most of your fleet would be parked and most of your current employees would be former employees.

Are you upset because Southwest didn't lay off any employees after 9/11? Are you mad because employee groups were the LAST cost cutting measure looked at over at SWA?

Oh so at this point in our debate you want to declare yourself a customer (kind of like going to war and then putting on the red cross symbol when the shooting starts), well obviously you are a loyal SWA one. If you want to pay more for less then continue your blind cheerleading of the Mid cost carrier from Dallas.

I am not mad about anything, however your lack of logic (we should all thank SWA for funding our exit from Bankruptcy!??), and baiting questions leave me bored with you,


Out.

JBG

 

[KCFlyer]

Oh so at this point in our debate you want to declare yourself a customer (kind of like going to war and then putting on the red cross symbol when the shooting starts), well obviously you are a loyal SWA one. If you want to pay more for less then continue your blind cheerleading of the Mid cost carrier from Dallas.

I am not mad about anything, however your lack of logic (we should all thank SWA for funding our exit from Bankruptcy!??), and baiting questions leave me bored with you,
Out.

JBG

I knew I was asking too much when I asked you to think. Southwest in their "take no prisoners" competition in the weeks and months following 9/11 succeeded in getting butts in seats. Without those butts, there might well have been a lot of UAL planes parked in the desert, and they might well STILL be parked there had they followed YOUR logic of raising fares to prevent anything related to the airline industry from surviving. I don't think I ever posed as a SWA employee...all I did was point out that your airline seems to price tickets at a LOWER price than Southwest. Gosh...that should have drawn the price conscious consumer like me to your airline. It must have worked, judging from your load factor and market share....but I stuck with Southwest because quite honestly think I get more on Southwest. See...I'm not a platinum elite on United, so I can't take advantage of your economy Plus seating...I'm stuck back with LESS legroom on a UAL flight than I am on a Southwest flight. What more do you do for me when I want to fly from MCI to Chicago or Los Angeles than Southwest?

I'm just an ignorant customer, and you needn't worry about me bespoiling the interior of a UAL jet...If Southwest doesn't fly where I'm going, American does. My interactions with employees of those two airlines makes be feel like my business is welcomed there. Wish I could say the same for your airline, but a lot of you UAL guys seem to hold the customer with a very low regard.

 

[magsau]

why should he retract. Sounds like he shot from the hip and spoke the truth. Truth is the legacy pilots are spoiled. (Big Money, Low prodectivity) Truth is you guys never thought much about SWA Pilots and the airline itself since our inception. I think the most common phrase I've heard is that we are a second rate airline. Now 35 years later, profitable, and have a leg to stand on you turn on someone who spoke the truth. Your airlines are trying to model themselves after us and they're the ones who want you to conform. So Hefner made himself a focal point by making a bold statement such as this. But really people, shouldn't ya'll be looking at your own ceo's rather than your brother pilots.

I am printing what you just wrote and will hand it to any SWA pilot that tries to jumpseat on my carrier. So to all the SWA pilots you can thank this guy and Hefner for the opportunity to take the next flight

 

[tulswa]

Use your best judgement in granting or denying jumpseat privileges. Hefner is not an elected representative of SWA pilots. He has denied making the statement. You can choose to believe him or not.

If you believe that punishing an entire group of pilots for the words or actions of one, that is something that you must live with. I thought that our profession was above this.

 

[corl737]

Use your best judgement in granting or denying jumpseat privileges. Hefner is not an elected representative of SWA pilots. He has denied making the statement. You can choose to believe him or not.

If you believe that punishing an entire group of pilots for the words or actions of one, that is something that you must live with. I thought that our profession was above this.

Actually I'd appreciate Magsau denying the jumpseat to me and using this as the reason. To do so would expose his identity which he has continued to avoid. He spouts his desire to attribute the comments published in the newspaper to Jeff even though Jeff and SWAPA denies the interview occurred. If he is 100% certain that a person must stand behind the words they've said, why does he hide his vindictive intentions behind a fictious moniker? Anyone care to contribute a good term to describe such behavior?

Please, oh, please turn me down, Magsau, just so we'll be able to personally give you the credit you deserve!

(Perhaps you overlooked my request for you to demonstrate a measure of professionalism in this message to you last week:
http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php...indpost&p=36106 ?)

 

[ramper_in_las]

Just saw a story on a network that covers the market on your price increase, the anchor's comment regarding these moves was about how the airlines are "nickel and diming" customers. The comment was also made about how paying for extra leg room was "OK"....

You have nothing to offer there with your cattle car seating. That has been the common criticism of your business model, that you have no real levers to pull to increase your revenue to support an ever increasing cost structure. That is why you went into higher revenue markets for higher fares. The fact is fuel hedges made you look like a much better airline than you are.

You better hope that you can maintain profitability before others stop matching. If other airlines start beating you up about being higher cost and cramped seating, 2 stops on the way with no first class or business...your bookings will definitely suffer.

Good Luck,

JBG

Thats why we enjoy living in America my friend. Freedom of choice. So if you don't like us don't fly us.

 

[ramper_in_las]

I am printing what you just wrote and will hand it to any SWA pilot that tries to jumpseat on my carrier. So to all the SWA pilots you can thank this guy and Hefner for the opportunity to take the next flight

So be it if it makes you feel better.

 

[magsau]

So be it if it makes you feel better.

Absolutely. I have done my days of helping the ungrateful SWA pilot. From that yo yo that had the airliners.net blog to Hefner and yourself I believe giving a ride to this group is no longer something I feel comfortable doing. If I want to ride SWA I will pay the $29 bucks. If they want to go to to SYD, SGN or HKG where I tend to see them most, then they can cough up the several grand it would take to buy a first or Business class ticket.

Would hate to offer up a ride, first class seat and then have the SWA pilot become "spoiled" by the legacy experience. How on earth could I bear the guilt of knowing I contributed to his downfall.

 

[ramper_in_las]

Absolutely. I have done my days of helping the ungrateful SWA pilot. From that yo yo that had the airliners.net blog to Hefner and yourself I believe giving a ride to this group is no longer something I feel comfortable doing. If I want to ride SWA I will pay the $29 bucks. If they want to go to to SYD, SGN or HKG where I tend to see them most, then they can cough up the several grand it would take to buy a first or Business class ticket.

Would hate to offer up a ride, first class seat and then have the SWA pilot become "spoiled" by the legacy experience. How on earth could I bear the guilt of knowing I contributed to his downfall.

Blah Blah Blah.... If you take a look at my user name I am ramper in las. If you actually work in the industry you would understand what kind of rat I am. Quit throwing your flame bait out here and go away.