Northwest Unions

[Beer Guzzler]

WT

How are things at DL with your UNION ? OOOps, that's right. You do not have one !!! What will you do when NWA merges with you ? They do not have to hire you..And even if they did, you would be at the bottom of our list. Scabs will be senior to you. Seems that you need to dust off YOUR resume . Hurry now, the clock is ticking !

SN

First of all let me say this.. I fully undersatnd the skill & experience needed to be a good aircraft mechanic. This reply has nothing to do with the skill-sets required to be a mechanic.

I worked for a unionized company for years (UPIU) w/Scott Paper Co. During which time we had 2 strikes, both of which lasted 6 weeks or more.. The measley increases that my "union reps" :down: got for me didn't even come close to off-setting the losses I had while on strike.

The unions mantra is to 'fight' for better pay, working conditions. benefits & protect jobs..

Every union member is paid a set negotaited rate. Doesn't matter if you suck at your job, sick out all of the time or are just plain lazy you still get the same pay.

Working conditions, hours, breaks, etc... I think everybody has it pretty good.

Benefits as long as medical costs continue to rise benefits will cost more & coverage will decline. Companies simply can not afford them. This will continue.

Protecting jobs? Well, in my experience w/the UPIU, this is simply done based on senority. Layoffs come and unions start at the bottom.. This is a double edged sword. At the top you have the guys that have 'put the time in' and at the bottom you have those that bust ass and , if you are honest, actually do most of the work. With that being said (based on my experiences), layoffs union style actually hurt the company more than an preformance based retention system..

My question is this.. What is it that is so great about unions?

 

[Saturdaynite]

"My question is this.. What is it that is so great about unions?"

Guzzler,

I tend to agree with you. In general Unions suck. As you stated, with unions, all employees have the same benefits etc., regardless of performance. That definitely is not good.
While seniority has some advantages, I think that a lot of the very senior people
(30,40 + years) are way out of touch with reality.

Myself, and several of my close friends in the industry, are multi-lingual, an asset which will be benefitial should we have to re-invent our career path.

My comment refering to DL and "no union" was regarding the F/A issue of seniority based integration in the event of a merger/acquisition involving NW.

And even if NW folds and reemerges under an "alter ego". we also have language that addresses that issue.

Wheather NW survives or not, is anyones' guess. So I am going relax and watch the side show ! Because when the dust settles I will still be standing.

SN

 

[cltbay1homie]

actually they do have something to lose...its called senority....and you will see the seniors sacraficing the juniors in order to keep their jobs. Hey, when your 55+ and looking for a job....it isnt so easy..unless you are willing to move to some place where everybody you work with is either named Bubba or Jose. I can say this because I have been there. :down: B)

The feeling I get from the NWA AMT's is that they've got nothing left to lose, so they might as well go down swinging rather than cave.

[post="278763"][/post]​

 

[keeptheodds]

quote=Saturdaynite,Jul 19 2005, 01:44 PM

"My question is this.. What is it that is so great about unions?"

How are things at DL with your UNION ? OOOps, that's right. You do not have one !!! What will you do when NWA merges with you ? They do not have to hire you..And even if they did, you would be at the bottom of our list. Scabs will be senior to you. Seems that you need to dust off YOUR resume . Hurry now, the clock is ticking !


Guzzler,
I tend to agree with you. In general Unions suck. As you stated, with unions, all employees have the same benefits etc., regardless of performance. That definitely is not good.
While seniority has some advantages, I think that a lot of the very senior people
(30,40 + years) are way out of touch with reality.
Myself, and several of my close friends in the industry, are multi-lingual, an asset which will be benefitial should we have to re-invent our career path.
My comment refering to DL and "no union" was regarding the F/A issue of seniority based integration in the event of a merger/acquisition involving NW.
And even if NW folds and reemerges under an "alter ego". we also have language that addresses that issue.
Wheather NW survives or not, is anyones' guess. So I am going relax and watch the side show ! Because when the dust settles I will still be standing.

Saturdaynite, I think your more than bi-lingual I think your bi-polar with some kind of multi-personality disorder. It's good that you are going to stay on the side lines because any where else you would be a bumbling idiot. I hope your not a Northwest empolyee. The Northwest emplyees I've met here are some very intlligent people and most posts that I've read here on this site seems to come from intelligent people, even though I might disagree with some of their views. You however need to more than re-invent your carrer path.

 

[nwamalefa]

NW and UA have led the industry in employee ill will with their employer so NW's employees would be an obvious candidate. You cannot escape the reality that NW is crafting a package that pretty closely resembles what was presented to some of US' employees and yet it was passed.

There is no doubt that if NW's employees don't play as the company wants, NW will finish them off and NW's assets will become the property of another US airline. After 3 years of industry restructuring, NW's employees should have seen this coming and either prepared for another career or accept the drastic reductions in wages and lifestyle that will be forced upon them one way or another.

[post="278758"][/post]​

Let ask you this. How could we take paycuts if the company never asked us to take paycuts? Our contract passed in june 2000 and expired last june 2000. They asked for a got paycuts from the pilots. They asked the mechanics and we all know how that is going. The company just know in the past week demanded that we take paycuts in our new contract. We may have seen this comming for years but they never asked us to take a paycut. I was laid off for a year and called back in January of 2003. Last november we called back more FA's and as of July 31st there was a mandatory recall for all flight attendants. When the company does something like it sounds pretty good right? It sounds like they needs us back to work their schedule right? For everyone hired before june 1, 2000 we cant be laid off again unless an act of god. Our union took the company to court about this several years ago and unfortunately we lost. So even though we cant be laid off again, we actually can. If we declare bankruptcy which most likely we will how do you know we will liquidate? United did not liquidate? why is it USAIR can declare bankruptcy twice in a couple year period but as an individual we can only do it once every 10 years. How come USAIR was able to survive? How come United is able to survive? WHy is it that if NWA declares bankruptcy we will be gone? NWA and Delta will most likely do it around the same time and a merger could happen then. Who knows what name will remain. The NWA flight attendants are union, Delta's are not. If we do merge it could be all the Delta people will be out of a job because everyone at Northwest is Union. My point is no one knows what is going to happen. We all have our speculation and desires, but no one knows the answer. Who would have thought that USAIR and America West would have merged? I assumed like most eveyone else did, that USAIR would have been gone by last Christmas. You cant blame employees about a bankruptcy. I cant stop management from doing it. I cant take a paycut if they never asked me to take a paycut. You cant blame the mechanics either because over half member will be voting themselves out of a contract. NWA is spending more money on scabs than if they agreed to the mechanics last proposal. Oh yes, lets not forget about hedging fuel. Management never hedged fuel. We are told we have to give bonuses to management so we can keep them. Why do we need to keep them if they failed to hedged fuel? You cant blame labor for any of this. You cant and its just wrong to do so. What should a person who has worked for the airline for 20 years or so and is 50 years old. What are they suppose to do? Go out and learn a new trade? Go back to school? Its easier when we are young, and I am young. I am only 30. We all need to think about all of our members who are young, old, senior or junior. NWA wants a bankruptcy. If they were really trying to avoid it they should have come to us years ago to work out a plan to save money. Not now at the last minute, and then have them blame us because we didnt take a paycut.

 

[eolesen]

The NWA flight attendants are union, Delta's are not. If we do merge it could be all the Delta people will be out of a job because everyone at Northwest is Union.

Not quite....

Since DL's people would exceed 35% of the combined new entity, a representation vote would be required.

Should 50%+1 of the employees in any given workgroup vote no (which is likely, given how much bigger DL is in terms of employees), then it's more likely that you could wind up with no union in one or more workgroups at the new entity.