Now what?

[Bob Owens]

Vision2

93.9 percent of Tulsa County precincts reporting as of 12:30 a.m.​

Concerning % Yes % No
Proposition 1
Airport Upgrades, Closing Fund 44.1% 55.9%
Proposition 2
Quality-of-Life Improvements 45.5% 54.5%
Source: Oklahoma State Election Board

I've read where some considered this to be a big deal. what exactly was in the bill for AA and how necissary was it?

By the way here in NY the Taxpayers dont give AA anything. If they want to do business here they will pay their fair share, if not go ahead and leave and somebody else will gladly take what you left.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Good to see some in tulsa with a spine!

 

[dfw gen]

So much for a clear " vision" seems like status quo at aa no one had a clue or any vision for the future

 

[Frank Szabo]

The failure of "Vision" says volumes re: the tolerance of Tulsans re: AAs threats to leave and the mayor's desire to hand the anti-worker Chamber of Horrors ("commerce") a $56MM slush fund.

 

[amt66]

Way to go Tulsa

 

[Barfbag]

By the way here in NY the Taxpayers dont give AA anything. If they want to do business here they will pay their fair share, if not go ahead and leave and somebody else will gladly take what you left.

Well, unless your a Professional Team then the NY taxpayers will build you a stadium so you dont go.

 

[FWAAA]

By the way here in NY the Taxpayers dont give AA anything. If they want to do business here they will pay their fair share, if not go ahead and leave and somebody else will gladly take what you left.

Well, duh. AA needs NYC and needs to serve NYC a whole lot more than NYC needs AA. Tulsa's situation may not be the same as NYC's position. AA can't hold up NYC and threaten to leave, pulling thousands of jobs if it does not get its way. If it tried, the answer from NYC would be "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out." Followed by "you'll come crawling back here once you regain your senses, AA. And there won't be any gates or slots for you when you do." NYC has leverage that AA's unions can only dream about.

Tulsa? What AA does in Tulsa can be done in other states or other countries, like El Salvador and/or Hong Kong. That doesn't cause you any lost sleep (nor me) but it probably causes some heartburn among some AA employees there and no doubt is on the mind of business and government leaders in Tulsa who would not be thrilled with the loss of thousands of AA jobs to another state or another country. While DL, UA, WN and B6 are ready and waiting to replace AA in NYC, no airline is chomping at the bit to take over the TULE base and hire thousands of former AA employees at the wages AA pays.

I'm not a fan of cities or states offering big handouts to businesses so they'll locate there (or so they'll promise not to leave) but unfortunately, that's what cities and states do all the time for big business.

In the news today, Columbia, MO just agreed to give American Eagle a revenue guarantee of up to $3 million over two years in exchange for AA starting one daily flight to ORD and two daily flights to DFW. DL, which has been offering two or three flights to ATL (transitioning from MEM this year) without subsidies, announced that it was leaving if the town gave Eagle the guarantee. The town even offered the same deal to DL but DL turned them down. That town wishes it had the leverage that NYC has.

Well, unless your a Professional Team then the NY taxpayers will build you a stadium so you dont go.

What's a billion dollars here and there for some new stadiums (stadia?)?

 

[eolesen]

What's a billion dollars here and there for some new stadiums (stadia?)?

At least a stadium has a known value and brings in tourists.

TUL? It would have helped maintain some property owners and taxpayers. As FWAAA said, the work TUL does can be done somewhere more modern than the WW-II and Vietnam era buildings that are currently on the airport property...

Those who lobbied against the measure didn't care if the jobs stay in TUL or not. No skin off their noses, right?

 

[jimntx]

Or, maybe the good people of Tulsa read the papers, and they see where AMR has promised this or that and then reneged on the promise time and time again to various cities--(how many times has Nashville been a hub for AA? How many empty gates are there at STL and MCI? What about the SJC hub? And, it looks like they are dismantling the SFO hub.)--and they just decided they didn't want to be on the hook for millions in bonds for a beautiful, modern, but unused airport.

 

[eolesen]

AA has a SFO hub? It was never even considered a cornerstone...

Back to TUL, it's a slightly different situation than what you'd see with a terminal upgrade. As I understand it, the facility they were upgrading is owned by the City and had been leasing out to Boeing & AA at different times for overflow capacity.

Absent the upgrades, it's going to be hard to attract a new tenant regardless if AA leaves or not. MCI is finding that out the hard way. So is OAK.

Fort Worth, on the other hand, will have no problem finding a buyer for AFW, just as IND had no problem finding someone to lease out the former UA maintenance base.

Likewise, Duluth even managed to lease out the relatively new facility built for NWA (shut down after only a few years of operation) to AAR. There's an AA tie to that -- Danny Martinez is the one who signed the lease with the city...

 

[xUT]

Or, maybe the good people of Tulsa read the papers, and they see where AMR has promised this or that and then reneged on the promise time and time again to various cities--(how many times has Nashville been a hub for AA? How many empty gates are there at STL and MCI? What about the SJC hub? And, it looks like they are dismantling the SFO hub.)--and they just decided they didn't want to be on the hook for millions in bonds for a beautiful, modern, but unused airport.

All they had to do is look at what UAL did to Indianapolis.
State of the art facility that is pretty much empty.
Agreements null and void in BK proceedings.
B) xUT

 

[eolesen]

All they had to do is look at what UAL did to Indianapolis.
State of the art facility that is pretty much empty.
Agreements null and void in BK proceedings.
B) xUT

Was empty. Unless something changed, AAR has had the entire facility under lease for a couple years...

http://www.ibj.com/a...y2=oaLwhEjnDN0=

 

[Bob Owens]

Was empty. Unless something changed, AAR has had the entire facility under lease for a couple years...

http://www.ibj.com/a...y2=oaLwhEjnDN0=

Fluff.

"Once employed 3000, now has 1400."

This is the facility that they cant fully staff because they cant get mechanics.

Danny Martinez is running it, that says it all.

 

[Bob Owens]

AA has a SFO hub? It was never even considered a cornerstone...

Back to TUL, it's a slightly different situation than what you'd see with a terminal upgrade. As I understand it, the facility they were upgrading is owned by the City and had been leasing out to Boeing & AA at different times for overflow capacity.

Absent the upgrades, it's going to be hard to attract a new tenant regardless if AA leaves or not. MCI is finding that out the hard way. So is OAK.

Fort Worth, on the other hand, will have no problem finding a buyer for AFW, just as IND had no problem finding someone to lease out the former UA maintenance base.

Likewise, Duluth even managed to lease out the relatively new facility built for NWA (shut down after only a few years of operation) to AAR. There's an AA tie to that -- Danny Martinez is the one who signed the lease with the city...

SFO was a class I maintenance station.

I agree AFW will be utilized, its state of the art.

With fuel expensive, crews in short supply and Tulsa no longer willing to pay for whatever AA wants it makes building up DFW/DWH even more appealing. Ferry a plane to Tulsa, or Goldhoffer it over to DWH? Field trip from Tulsa for the next hail storm, or tow it over to DWH? Two flights to pretty much anywhere for field trips from OH or a direct flight to pretty much anywhere?

 

[eolesen]

Fluff.

"Once employed 3000, now has 1400."

This is the facility that they cant fully staff because they cant get mechanics.

True, the base employed 3000 under IAM & AMFA workrules. But did it ever occur to you that AAR's business model only requires 1400? Any idea how many of the 3000 UA employed were involved in back shops & component overhaul?