Nw Pilots & Fa's Mull Sympathy Strike

[awayfrmitall]

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[awayfrmitall]

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[post="288289"][/post]​

There is also a video on the top right of the page to watch...

 

[Hackman]

This company is trying to break its unions....all of them. If the other unions do not support one another at this very critical time for all the workers of NWA, then what ever union is left standing will be the next target, and they won't be standing long.

Many of us from other airlines will be on the picket line with the NWA strikers. We can see this is our fight too (at least most of us can) ...and it is a big one.

I guess this is the tragic path airline management wants today. Management wants to reap their millions in unjust rewards, while destoying the lives of the very workers that built these airlines. What a shame.... :angry:

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

It is no secret that NWA management is out of touch with what it takes to have a work force with a positive attitude. This same management however does know the meaning of greed.

The AMTs at NWA will NOT be alone in their fight against greed and evil. I, as an AA AMT, and others at nonNWA airlines will be walking side by side with these brave men & women. The F/A's at NWA will hopefully strike, or at least that is my belief. Will the pilots honor this strike? Let's see, NWA has already used Champion Air as a desperate measure to counter this strike. Does NWA care about ANYONE at the airline? The answer is yes, they do. NWA MANAGEMENT CARES ABOUT NWA MANAGEMENT. AND NOBODY ELSE! For the sake of our industry I hope that the pilots realize they will be the last work group that will have greed & evil directed their way. And if they do not support this strike then they will face it alone.

Good luck NWA AMTs. AA AMTs will be there for you when the time comes. FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT!

 

[pitguy]

I highly doubt the pilots supporting the mechanics on a strike.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

I highly doubt the pilots supporting the mechanics on a strike.

[post="288324"][/post]​

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

pitguy,

Using champion air was/is DEFINATELY a "shot across NWA/ALPA's bow"

BUT,

There are 2 sides to a "shot across the bow" !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your thoughts pitguy ??

NH/BB's

 

[pitguy]

You do have a point there regarding Champion Air. I just tend to think ALPA will cross when every card is played. I think the flight attendants will honor the picket line. Then again maybe a strike will not even happen in a last minute deal. Time will tell.

 

[markkus757]

I think management was just reminding the pilots that they can be replaced also if they decide to stand together. Divide and conquer. They already have that with the rampers and the mechs.

 

[Bob Owens]

The Mechanics are not waiting around.

http://wcco.com/traffic/local_story_225152625.html

Will the pilots join them? That depends on whether or not they remember history. Once a company goes on the path of union busting they wont stop. Surely the pilots, if they have any sense whatsoever, must realize that once NWA is done with the mechanics the other unions are fair game.

I suspect that if they bust the mechanics they will take the company into BK then they will go after the rest.

You know the saying, "as long as you have your pilots and mechanics you have your airline". Thats because other groups are more easily replaced.

As the article above says some have had enough. They may have to take a 50% pay cut while starting a new career but thats less than the cut we take when we go from one airline to the next. Within 5 years we are back up to where we were. You also have to remember that the article is from Minnesota, not New York. In places like New York the initial paycut is much less. Two 15 year employees at AA in JFK quit this spring and went to work for Con Ed (NYC Electric utility). They took around a 10% hourly pay cut but are earning more because there is plenty of OT. Their hourly pay will surpass their AA pay in two years.

So mechanics will fare OK, probably better than any other group of workers as far as matching their airline pay. Lets not forget that in order to bust the mechanics NWA had to pay scabs more than they want to pay their mechanics. When they go after the other groups that will not be the case, they will offere the scabs less than their current workers are making. Other groups probably will not do as well as the mechanics will on the outside, and the company knows it. When you compare the salary of a commuter mechanic to a legacy mechanic the difference is within a few dollars. Maybe ten thousand a year. 20 to 30% at the most. However when you compare the salaries of a commuter pilot to a legacy pilot the difference is tremendous. Some of the commuter pilots top out at around $50K while some legacy pilots top out at $200K. A $150,000 difference or around 300%.

The two hardest groups to replace are mechanics and pilots. While there are a lot of laid off workers from both groups mechanics usually dont have that much difficulty finding work that will match what they lost over a reletively short period of time. A topped out mechanic with 25 years can expect to find a job and earn a comparable wage within three to five years, a 25 year pilot would probably never match the wage he was earning. The ease through which mechanics can transfer their skills is why NWA has had so much trouble recruiting scabs and why they had to pay so much. NWA has reportedly been training scabs since June, so they have already paid each scab around $13,000 in wages plus meals and lodging. The IAM and PFAA are the most vulnerable because it does not take as much training to replace them. Maybe a week at most for the ramp guys , three weeks for the FAs. Scab pilots would probably attend the training for free to get simulator time and most probably still see their career as a pilots the most promising, even if it topped out at $100K instead of $200K. So the question for pilots is do they stand together with the mechanics or do they simply wait as the company picks them off one at a time? By busting the mechanics first the company will have already jumped their most expensive andone of their biggest hurdles, a few hops over the other work groups and NWA will have the momentum to jump over the pilots too. The mechanics and the flight arttendants may be enough to trip the company up. However if the other work groups stood as one big hurdle the company could never make it over. But will they realize this? Judging from the IAMs reaction, probably not, and those fools probably dont realize that no matter how much they give back that they are next.

 

[MCI transplant]

I think management was just reminding the pilots that they can be replaced also if they decide to stand together. Divide and conquer. They already have that with the rampers and the mechs.

[post="288383"][/post]​

<_< Do you really think NW's management can replace all their flights with a hand full of worn out old 727's? Can you see them trying to fly internationally with them? Come on!!! The NW pilots know this!!! This shot across their bow was done with a B.B, gun!!!!!! 😉

 

[Saturdaynite]

I think management was just reminding the pilots that they can be replaced also if they decide to stand together. Divide and conquer. They already have that with the rampers and the mechs.

[post="288383"][/post]​

Actually, this was nwa managements way of "testing the waters". They are still uncertain as to weather the other employee groups will walk or not.......
a Champion flight here and there was a
" let's see if they even notice it" ploy..........

the "lorenzo mentality" is not bright enough to realize that the advent of the computer, cell phones, and all of modern day technology, has made them as passe as tye dye !!! They will try to resurect it. But there are too many that remember it ( and do not like it) from the first time around ! But just like
marty shegrue, they will not be towing a uhaul, behind their Herz 🙂 🙂 🙂

(FYI, martin shegrue, a former Pan Am Pilot ), (read "The Sky Gods") who resurected the 2nd Pan Am, then screwed all the employees with the same scam he was hired at 1st PA with...... knowing they were going to be "furloughed" for good!

shegrue, croaked @ age 57..... he is waiting in hell for the nwa management team........and the board of directors, if they do not go in to executive session to vote these losers out !!!

cheers,
SN

 

[vanish747]

The Mechanics are not waiting around.

http://wcco.com/traffic/local_story_225152625.html

Will the pilots join them? That depends on whether or not they remember history. Once a company goes on the path of union busting they wont stop. Surely the pilots, if they have any sense whatsoever, must realize that once NWA is done with the mechanics the other unions are fair game.

I suspect that if they bust the mechanics they will take the company into BK then they will go after the rest.

You know the saying, "as long as you have your pilots and mechanics you have your airline". Thats because other groups are more easily replaced.

As the article above says some have had enough. They may have to take a 50% pay cut while starting a new career but thats less than the cut we take when we go from one airline to the next. Within 5 years we are back up to where we were. You also have to remember that the article is from Minnesota, not New York. In places like New York the initial paycut is much less. Two 15 year employees at AA in JFK quit this spring and went to work for Con Ed (NYC Electric utility). They took around a 10% hourly pay cut but are earning more because there is plenty of OT. Their hourly pay will surpass their AA pay in two years.

So mechanics will fare OK, probably better than any other group of workers as far as matching their airline pay. Lets not forget that in order to bust the mechanics NWA had to pay scabs more than they want to pay their mechanics. When they go after the other groups that will not be the case, they will offere the scabs less than their current workers are making. Other groups probably will not do as well as the mechanics will on the outside, and the company knows it. When you compare the salary of a commuter mechanic to a legacy mechanic the difference is within a few dollars. Maybe ten thousand a year. 20 to 30% at the most. However when you compare the salaries of a commuter pilot to a legacy pilot the difference is tremendous. Some of the commuter pilots top out at around $50K while some legacy pilots top out at $200K. A $150,000 difference or around 300%.

The two hardest groups to replace are mechanics and pilots. While there are a lot of laid off workers from both groups mechanics usually dont have that much difficulty finding work that will match what they lost over a reletively short period of time. A topped out mechanic with 25 years can expect to find a job and earn a comparable wage within three to five years, a 25 year pilot would probably never match the wage he was earning. The ease through which mechanics can transfer their skills is why NWA has had so much trouble recruiting scabs and why they had to pay so much. NWA has reportedly been training scabs since June, so they have already paid each scab around $13,000 in wages plus meals and lodging. The IAM and PFAA are the most vulnerable because it does not take as much training to replace them. Maybe a week at most for the ramp guys , three weeks for the FAs. Scab pilots would probably attend the training for free to get simulator time and most probably still see their career as a pilots the most promising, even if it topped out at $100K instead of $200K. So the question for pilots is do they stand together with the mechanics or do they simply wait as the company picks them off one at a time? By busting the mechanics first the company will have already jumped their most expensive andone of their biggest hurdles, a few hops over the other work groups and NWA will have the momentum to jump over the pilots too. The mechanics and the flight arttendants may be enough to trip the company up. However if the other work groups stood as one big hurdle the company could never make it over. But will they realize this? Judging from the IAMs reaction, probably not, and those fools probably dont realize that no matter how much they give back that they are next.

[post="288386"][/post]​

some good points but how do you explain Delta pilots and their success through the years when they were the only union on the property?

 

[BigRed1]

This company is trying to break its unions....all of them. If the other unions do not support one another at this very critical time for all the workers of NWA, then what ever union is left standing will be the next target, and they won't be standing long.

Many of us from other airlines will be on the picket line with the NWA strikers. We can see this is our fight too (at least most of us can) ...and it is a big one.

I guess this is the tragic path airline management wants today. Management wants to reap their millions in unjust rewards, while destoying the lives of the very workers that built these airlines. What a shame.... :angry:

[post="288318"][/post]​

A quote from the J.P.Morgan Report upgrading NWA to Overweight today 8-16-05...A lot at stake here folks...See Below.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Baker wrote that the market would welcome a deal that avoids a strike, but if the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association walks off the job, a walkout may well give Northwest management a feather in their cap.

"We believe that an AMFA strike coupled with generally smooth weekend operations would receive an even warmer market embrace, as it would validate management's high-risk, hard-line labor approach and further weaken whatever shreds of resolve the IAM and PFAA may be clinging to," Baker wrote, referring to unionized workers represented by the International Association of Machinists and the Professional Flight Attendant Association.

How the weekend will play out remains uncertain. The airline is adamant it's made the right preparations and set up enough contract workers to cover any walkout, but the union isn't sure that its members can be so easily replaced and calls management overconfident.

Baker says a bad weekend would be a big blow for the airline. "Simply put, an unsuccessful weekend operation would likely radically increase Northwest's near-term probability of a bankruptcy filing, as other unions call management's 'we-can-fly-through-a-strike' bluff," he wrote

 

[Bob Owens]

some good points but how do you explain Delta pilots and their success through the years when they were the only union on the property?

[post="288727"][/post]​

Delta chose not to be agressive. (I dont think they are the only union on the property either.) They paid their non-union employees union rates or better too. NWA seems to be taking Lorenzos Continental approach. Perhaps they are going to gut the airline to make it ready for selling?

 

[JS]

Delta chose not to be agressive. (I dont think they are the only union on the property either.) They paid their non-union employees union rates or better too. NWA seems to be taking Lorenzos Continental approach. Perhaps they are going to gut the airline to make it ready for selling?

[post="288760"][/post]​

The dispatchers used to be union, but they chose to decertify a couple years ago. So it's just the pilots now.

Some of the flight attendants have to tried to organize, but luckily their "brothers and sisters" are smarter than that and would rather not see a dues deduction on every paycheck.